SPECIAL INTERVIEW
With about six months to go before the presidential elections, US President George W Bush will visit the region this week for the ninth time, before heading to China for the Olympics.
In a special interview with PICHAI CHUENSUKSAWADI, Editor-in-Chief of the Bangkok Post and Post Today, and select editors from China and South Korea at the White House on Wednesday, President Bush says he believes that during his presidency relations with the Far East have been "strong and robust" and that he leaves the Oval Office with US foreign policy in the region "in good shape". But he remains concerned that America has become isolationist and protectionist and urged the next president to adopt a forward-leaning foreign policy and to remain actively engaged in the region.
Published here are excerpts of the interview.
President Bush: Looking forward to my trip. As you all know, the itinerary is South Korea, Thailand and then China. South Korea will be all diplomacy; get a chance to see my friend, the President; a good discussion about common issues.
I'll see the Prime Minister of Thailand for a nice dinner. He'll have some interesting events related to Burma the next day. And then of course we go into China for the Olympics, but there will be a fair amount of diplomacy while I'm there.
And I'm really looking forward to it - looking forward to it because, one, my good wife will be going with me and I love to travel with her. Secondly, one of my daughters is going with me, which will be fun. And my brother will be going with me. And in China I'll be meeting my father, who will be travelling with my sister.
Question: A big family reunion, Mr President? (Laughter.)
President Bush: It sounds that way. Anyway, I'm looking forward to it, I'm excited to go. Relations with the three nations that I have just described are good, strong. My trip will help advance them, the relations. And I'll also be giving a speech in Thailand about our foreign policy in the Far East, where I will be leaving this foreign policy in six months. I will also remind people that I will be sprinting to the finish, that I will finish this job strong.
Q: Do you have some vision regarding US-Korea-Japan trilateral cooperation when you go to (South) Korea?
President Bush: One of the reasons why it's very important for the United States to have an active presence and to establish good bilateral relations with the countries in the region is to help foster good relations between countries - whether it be South Korea and Japan, or Japan and China, it's essential. And it's in our national interest that South Korea have good relations with Japan. And I understand there's tension. I listen very carefully to the respected leaders.
But first of all, we can't fix certain disputes; that will be up to the sovereign governments. But we can help facilitate dialogue. We can help facilitate understandings. And so I think it's very important for the United States to be very active and have a good, solid presence and have vibrant diplomacy - which is what this administration has had.
Part of the reason that I'm stopping in South Korea prior to going to the Olympics - I mean, one could have attempted just to go straight to the Olympics, but I want to come to South Korea - I'd just come from Japan, and it's all part of making sure that our foreign policy is active. I would hope that no president would ever dial us out of the Far East. Quite the contrary, I think it's very important for us to stay actively engaged in the Far East.
And one such multilateral engagement is the six-party talks, all aimed at keeping - dealing with a very delicate issue, but with five partners sending the same message to your neighbour to the north. So it's part of a foreign policy vision that's multilateral in nature, with strong bilateral relations that help create an atmosphere in which old grievances and new issues can be solved in a peaceful way.
Q:Some would argue that during your presidency, obviously the US is focused on the war on terror - Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq - and that meant probably in the views of some that the US was less engaged in Asia, especially vis-a-vis countering the influence of China, which has grown; and that basically your foreign policy has been pretty much like previous administrations, which lacked a more higher level of proactive stance, say, compared to the Shultz period. How would you describe your legacy under your presidency for Asia and US-Asean relations?
And point number two: looking ahead to the changes happening with India growing stronger, China growing stronger, that's going to change the dynamics of the region and the US is a global player in the world. How do you see US role in that region in the future?
President Bush: Let me start with the second (point), then you can refresh my 62-year-old memory for the first. (Laughter.)
There's plenty of room for countries to work with in a constructive way. In other words, I don't view the diplomacy as zero sum, it's got to be either this country or that country. India and China and the United States will provide great opportunities for entrepreneurs, businesses throughout the region. And they'll provide great opportunities for development of services and goods that people in our big markets want. It provides great opportunities for capital flows that are - foreign direct investment - which is necessary for economic development. It'll provide opportunities to work collaboratively on strong strategic areas, security areas. One area will be - there's a great opportunity for all of us to cooperate on the environment.
So I view the emergence of India and China as positives. I think it's going to be very important for the United States to stay engaged - not only with the two nations; if I were Thailand, I'd be asking, what about us, will you remember other nations? And the answer is, absolutely. And one way to do that - the reason I brought up multilateralism is one way to stay engaged, is through the mechanisms like the six-party talks on the Korean issue. Our vision is, once that issue gets solved, if North Korea verifiably gives up its weapons, programmes, ambitions, then the six-party talks can serve as another mechanism.
Asean is a place where the United States can remain, should remain, actively engaged with nations who are saying, "Wait a minute, we're your friends, as well. Don't just focus on the big guys, think about us."
Apec is another very important group of nations where we can work in a way that is beneficial, mutually beneficial. And so people may say, well, okay, fine, how can you - I've gone to every Apec meeting, including the one right after Sept 11, 2001; I'm going to this one, even after our elections. I'll be semi-retired by the time - (laughter) - I'll be still sprinting, but semi-retired.
And in terms of foreign policy in the Far East, it is mistaken if someone were to say that my preoccupation was on the war on terror. You bet I wanted to make sure that we protected ourselves at home. But that's the same sentiment other people have.
Secondly, our foreign policy has been robust in the Far East. Our relations with your country, with South Korea, with Japan and with China have never been better. And it took a lot of work to get relations, bilateral relations, as strong as they are. Not many presidents could say, in the history of US diplomacy, that relations with South Korea, Japan, China and Thailand are strong and robust.
A lot of times, if you're friends with one, you made it hard to be friends with another. So as a result of a lot of work, a lot of personal diplomacy, as well as a lot of active engagement throughout our administration, I can tell you that I am satisfied with the variety of relationships.
And my only point to you is that I'm very pleased with the state of relations now, and I recognise it took a lot of work to get them there. But I feel very comfortable in telling you that if there is a common problem, I've got personal relationships with the leaders where I can sit down and say, "Here's my point of view; what is yours?" And if we have a common problem, let's work it out. We've had some common problems and some issues that have arisen, and yet, I will tell you that relations are very cordial and open and honest.
Q: Your visit will mark the 30th anniversary of diplomatic relations between China and the US. How do you evaluate current relations, the welcome of the bilateral relations for the last part of 30 years, especially the eight years under your presidency? And in which areas do you think the two countries could broaden and deepen cooperation?
President Bush: First, I will be dedicating a new embassy. I've got a new embassy going. So, yes, there was a deal here last night that people in my administration went to. But I'll just tell you what I'm going to. I'm going to the embassy - the new embassy opening in Beijing. Isn't that interesting, two new embassies open the same year, obviously to celebrate the 30th anniversary of what has been a very important relationship. It will be at that embassy opening that I will be joined by my father, who first introduced me to China in 1975.
And so my only point to you is that this has been an evolving relationship, and we're both honouring the 30th anniversary of the relationship. The fact that both countries are honouring the 30th anniversary of the relationship shows that - it's a statement about good relations. If we had bad relations we wouldn't be honouring the 30th. It would be, okay, here comes the 30th anniversary, who cares?
We'll let the historians evaluate the difference between what the relationship was like in the '80s, '90s, but I can tell you my view. One, I've had good relations with - good personal relations with Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao. Secondly, we have worked hard during my time to put strategic dialogues in place that broaden and enhance the relationship. So Secretary Paulson has worked with his two counterparts to deal with economic issues that are very important.
I've been committed to broadening our defence cooperation and exchanges. I think it's going to be very important for - I know it's important for our generals and admirals to deal with their counterparts. And I believe, more importantly, or as importantly, we ought to be getting younger Chinese officers involved with younger US officers. Why? To create a feeling of trust.
You ask how has the relationship evolved. The crisis of my administration, the first crisis, was the EP-3 (when a US electronic surveillance aircraft with a crew of 24 landed on the Chinese island of Hainan after a collision.) And it was like, oh, man, this is unbelievable. And it - I will tell you - and frankly, it took a while to get phone calls returned and we were just trying to get information.
And I'm confident that if an incident like that happened now, there would be a much more immediate response because there's more trust between the two administrations.
And that's good for the region. It's good for our bilateral relations. So I would tell you that ours has been an evolving relationship that is in good, solid shape. An American president has got to know two things: one, the nature of the person he's dealing with, and the nature of the government he's dealing with, and the pressures that government feels. And I've worked hard to be a sensitive, open-minded person to that end.
Q: A lot of people in Hong Kong talk about this. Looking ahead, do you think it's important for the American people to sort of view China mostly as a strategic competitor or more as a partner?
President Bush: I think as we look ahead I would view it as a management of a complex relationship, where sometimes our national interests are aligned and sometimes our national interests are not aligned. And one reason I call it a complex relationship is that here in America, trade with China is not necessarily universally accepted as good. It is universally accepted as good in this administration. I mean, free and fair trade is good for the world, and I believe it's good for this relationship. But it is a - some in America view the advent of Chinese manufacturing, particularly at the lower end of the economic scale, as direct competition with their own livelihood, thereby making the relationship complex.
Energy. What's very interesting is that if you view China as a market, you want them to become more robust and more prosperous. But in order to do that, China is going to have to have more energy, and as China demands more energy, it creates more global demand relative to a slower growing supply, means higher prices for us all.
It is a very interesting and important relationship made complex by globalisation, and their constantly changing internal situation, particularly when it comes their economy.
I'm sure you've been reading about the Doha discussions. On the one hand, we've got very good relations. On the other hand, it was hard to find common ground to get the Doha deal closed. Your readers have got to know that there's opportunity and there's challenges. So it's hard to label the relationship one way or the other.
I will tell you this: An American president is going to have to pay very close attention to relations with not only China but the region. And I say "the region" because if the perception is ever that the United States is fixated only on China, then you're going to have issues with long-time allies, people that have been counting on American support for a period of time.
And so never can the foreign policy be viewed as zero sum. It's always got to be viewed as additive. And my worry for America over time is that we've become isolationist and protectionist. I've spoken about this quite frequently. Protectionism will be bad for our own economy and our world economy, in my judgement. Isolationism will create a lot of concern.
And so the United States has got a forward-leaning foreign policy in the Far East. When people take an objective look at this administration, we have been very much engaged. And I believe I'll be leaving office with the Far East in as good a shape as it can be from a US perspective.
Q: One other issue on this North Korea nuclear deal. I understand it's a headache and you're sprinting as fast as you can, but the North Koreans don't seem like they're keeping up with the pace. (Laughter.) So maybe you could give me some more breaking news on this end. (Laughter.) What about the delisting of North Korea from the terrorist list, what about the verification process, what about the North Korea...
President Bush: No, no, no, no, no. Sprinting is one thing; undermining good policy is another. And multilateral diplomacy is the best way to peacefully solve an issue such as the nuclearisation or the weaponisation or the desire to have a nuclear weapons programme by the North Koreans. I will do nothing to undermine the six-party structure, the credibility of the six-party structure, and our partners.
And therefore, to answer your question, we are very clear that in order to move forward in the phase that we're now in - and this is a phased-in deal - that there must be verification that we're all happy with, a verification mechanism on not only plutonium, but also highly enriched uranium, as well as proliferation.
Q: Burma is a concern for the US. It's also a concern for quite a number of members of Asean. But there is a view again that that's one issue that's hindering a more advanced cooperation between US and Asean as an organisation. What's your view on this, your take on that?
President Bush: I don't think so. I think our relations are very strong. I think they've been strong on counterterrorism and the economy. There's a difference about how hard people should push for democracy in Burma. I'm at one end of the ledger. And we'll continue to press hard.
And I do want to thank the Thai government for its understanding of the refugee issue, particularly as relates to the border policy. I think it's been very wise and very humane.
My message is going to be one directed to the people in Burma when I meet with some of the activists, and Laura is going to be meeting with some of the people that she got to know.
Tell you an interesting story. I included Burma in my last United Nations address, and it was a pretty strong statement. And she was in the audience there at the UN. And just as soon as the speech ended she got an e-mail from one of the activists she had met, a person that was trying to help deal with human suffering.
And I just thought it was an interesting world we're in, in which the speech finishes, the word gets out, they e-mail back to Mrs Bush, or Laura, to thank me as I walked off the podium.
Now, it's - my only point to you is that it is very important for us to - I understand pressures on countries, and I understand different interests. And I always try to put myself in the other person's shoes. But as I do so, I never forget certain basic fundamental values. And so we will be - I will be, and Laura will be, expressing our opinion in a way that is, I hope, very clear and hopeful to people. Thailand is a democracy.
Q: We're having some problems.
President Bush: Democracy is not easy, right?
Q: Right.
President Bush: On the other hand, it is a democracy, and they'll work through an issue, no question about it. The country next door to you is not and wants to hear that people remember them. See, one of my concerns is that we - that America gets so comfortable they say, who cares? What does it matter whether or not somebody has got HIV/Aids?
One of the things on Asean you ask about is that part of our Aids initiative that I'm going to go sign a bill this afternoon, which is a firm commitment to dealing with disease, is in Vietnam. Isn't that interesting?
And my only point will be that we are a compassionate country amongst a lot of other things. We are an idealistic country. We act for - you know, we act - at least this administration has - not afraid to make tough decisions if needed, particularly given the world in which we live, in which there are people that are willing to kill the innocent to achieve their political objectives.
But we're also a very compassionate nation. And it's interesting that a nation - you asked about Asean relations and bilateral relations - it's interesting that a nation with which this country had been at war is now a country that is receiving HIV/Aids help to help deal with a human catastrophe.
Q: The Olympics is a very important event, not only for China but also for the whole world. So what you would like to convey, your messages and wishes to the 29th Beijing Olympic Games and to Chinese people, because Chinese people have made tremendous efforts to ensure the Olympic Games is a successful event - even sometimes they make some sacrifices.
President Bush: Well, our message is that I personally and America respects the Chinese people - respect your history, respect your tradition, and I'm honoured to have been invited to the Games. And I make the case to people that by going to the Games and respecting the people, it gives me credibility with the government so that we can deal with common opportunities and common problems.
And I'll have a bilateral with Hu Jintao, which I'm looking forward to. I enjoy the man. I find him to be a straightforward guy, I'm very comfortable in his presence, and we will talk about the kinds of issues we always talk about.
And I made a decision not to politicise the Games; this is for athletics. There's plenty of time for politics, and I'm confident I'll have time for politics and, you know - look, I've met with the Chinese President a lot. This isn't like once every four years you sit down with the man. I meet with him all the time, it seems like, at these different forums where the United States is at the table with a lot of other nations in the region.
And I have got very cordial relations, and it's important to be able to have those kind of relations because he's got to tell me what's on his mind and I've got to tell him what's on my mind in order to be able to deal with problems. And I think when people study my presidency and find out how Bush conducted foreign policy, they'll see I don't shy away from things; I am not a shy person. And if we have a problem, we can discuss it. And so the first time I met with your President at Camp David, first South Korean President to ever go to Camp David, he came. I knew there was some potential problems. And I wanted to put him in a frame of mind, in an atmosphere where he'd feel comfortable.
Q: What has surprised you about your dealings over the last eight years with the Chinese leadership?
President Bush: That's an interesting question. One thing that interests me is to watch China's leaders deal with the benefits and challenges of a marketplace. In other words, this is a country that has got a lot of mouths to feed and a lot of people to employ. And they are committed to, in many ways, marketplace principles, particularly as they have invited in foreign capital. And it's been interesting to watch them deal with a combination of the need for raw material versus the - from the foreign policy implications of dealing with a country that has a lot of raw material. The classic case is Iran, where I have spent a lot of time with the Chinese President talking about the dangers of Iran having a nuclear weapon, knowing full well that they need fuel in order to meet their own internal pressures.
And I'll repeat to you, Hu Jintao has been very open in many ways about his concerns and the pressures he feels, as have I. And I feel comfortable. And by the way, that's not easy when there is a language barrier. And yet, I can report to you that we do have cordial, relaxed conversations - in spite of the fact that we both have interpreters. Here is a man who I feel comfortable talking about his family, and he asks about mine.
The Taiwan issue was a very touchy issue for a while, causing me to say in the Oval Office - that which is now well-chronicled - that the United States does not support a unilateral declaration of independence. Because I wanted to make sure that our message was clear, but also that the relationship was in a way not our relationship, but other's relationship with China, was in a way that it could evolve peacefully and constructively.
Q: Mr President, what is left to be done in the sprint?
President Bush: There is a lot left to be done. In the Far East, absolutely. Six-party talks is one. Go to Apec and have a successful conclusion. Meet with Asean nations to leave the relationship in a solid way. Continue pressing hard on the human rights agenda, human freedom agenda, a religious freedom agenda. There's three issues right there. Yes, free trade agreement (with South Korea). Absolutely. Continuing to work with Japan on their defence forces posture. There's a lot to be done.
For full text of the interview go to: http://www.bangkokpost.com
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