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Friday, September 11, 2009
Unemployed? Become a monk!
It is definitely a good intention. It is also definitely clear that the Ecclesiastical Council's decision to help unemployed men by turning them into monks will be plagued with problems.
To help ease the economic stress, the clerical council recently ordered all temples to ordain unemployed men so they can learn the path to inner calm instead of spending their free time destructively.
The council's order brought to mind a conservation I had with the abbot of my neighbourhood temple some time ago.
He heaved a deep sigh when I asked if he had problems running his temple.
"People just think temples are where they can dump their problematic kids or relatives. And we cannot say no because they are our temple supporters.
"Once in the temples, these new monks often form cliques and gangs. They refuse to follow the rules or study dharma. I cannot do much about it. Upsetting them can be dangerous."
But at least he knows their relatives who can help when things get out of control. Imagine the extra headache when he has to follow the elders' order by opening his temple to total strangers.
To be fair, the elders have cautioned each temple to do a background check on ordination candidates and make sure that they will adhere to monastic rules and spiritual training. After all, the clergy is already at its wits' end on how to deal with rogue monks, many of whom are former criminals or formerly disrobed monks who abuse the robe and erode public faith in the clergy.
The abbots must then do their best to screen the right people and give them strict training, says the order.
But can they?
Poor screening and training are some of the most serious problems plaguing the clergy. According to the monastic rules, the preceptors must train the monks they ordain for at least five to ten years, or even longer, until it is certain that their charges can live a monk's life true to the monastic codes of conduct.
In reality, however, it is easy to get ordained, pick up a clerical registration card, and leave.
Some preceptors are plain greedy. Others just do not train new monks because it is too much of a problem, or they simply do not know how. They also know that the elders simply do not care how they run the temples so long as the scandals are swept under the carpet.
It is this extreme laxity resulting from the ineffectual, centralised clerical administration that breeds rife monastic misconduct and abuse.
During my conversion with my neighbourhood abbot, I also asked if he provided meditation training to his monks.
No, he said. There are so many meditation techniques, he explained, and since he does not know which is the right one, he'd rather not get involved.
What? An abbot, a preceptor, who cannot give young monks meditation guidance? If not for spiritual practice, what is monkhood for, then?
At least the abbot was honest. If anything, what he needs is not rebuke, but urgent help from the clergy in monk training as well as temple management, which does not exist.
It is not only his temple that is left to its own devices. Most are like that. Yet, they are expected to effectively recruit and train new monks out of thin air.
This is why it is no use to ask why the clergy is helping only men, not women too, in this time of economic stress?
Temples must go back to their communities. They must work together to revive the lost sense of community. It is the only way to effectively address local needs, which are different in different locales.
Any top-down, uniform orders from the feudal structure would not work. They are out of touch and out of place - be it for men or women.
Read commentComment 1
Chris 
date : 11/09/2009 time : 17:45
date : 11/09/2009 time : 17:45
I am about to go to Fang (north of Chiang Rai) and attend the "monk for a month" program. I certainly hope the apathy and discord you speak of has not infected their charter. I still very much revere and respect the "Thai" way of things. I have been married to a lovely Thai woman for nearly ten years. We have one child and visit family in Sakon Nakhon yearly. I have long since lost my enchanted amazment of Thailand. I truely love Thailand and even more the Thai people. The Goverment however, still needs to muture. Corruption and crime are evident even to the most simple observer. I wish the "western influence" did not have such a strong appeal to so many there. I live in America and I have seen many time the ills of our western ways polluting your wonderfull society. Fun is fun but culture is something I think Thais should more closly embrace as thier own unique gift. I love your country and will be returning with myThai famaily soon. Thank you Thailand! Sawasdee Krub! Long live the King!
Comment 2
Paul date : 12/09/2009 time : 15:58
date : 12/09/2009 time : 15:58
I do not have the means to prove or disprove your commentary. I assume you have the facts and that they are correct. My question is why the Ecclesiastical council does not do something about it? They certainly have the authority to do so, I would think. If I could speak Thai fluently, I would be happy to teach meditation techniques. Unfortumately, mai coy dee taolai.
Comment 3
pierre corso date : 14/09/2009 time : 06:50
date : 14/09/2009 time : 06:50
Good intention doesn't always bring in good result. To get rid of unemployment by turning jobless men to monks is so imaginative ...and also irreal . What an inventive method to solve the problem,really! Will there be enough temples for all of new "jobless" monks ? Howabout their food and clothes and medical treatment? Who will be in charge of all expense since they won't work to earn their livings any more? These are just a few questions for the single ; What about those with family in charge? who will support and take care of their wives and children if we save only husbands or fathers? What will we do with them -turn women to nuns and boys to novices ? Then,the young girls are still there. What will we do with them ? Oh,someone say, prostitution ?
Comment 4
mike date : 14/09/2009 time : 07:58
date : 14/09/2009 time : 07:58
YET MAN CAN BE MONK. WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN? MY POOR THAI GIRLS JUST KEEP HOUSE CLEAN AND COOK FOR THE STUP MAN.
Khun Sanitsuda highlights a real problem regarding the training of monks and the difficulties of keeping them to monastic discipline. Perhaps the elders should consider the ordination procedure followed by Luang Por Ajarn Cha's monasteries, where candidates for ordination must spend at least a year as anagarikas to see how suitable they are to the monastic life.
However, the idea of ordaining unemployed men is not so strange. Any monk who is ordained with a view to a long-term in the robes is otherwise unemployed. Part of becoming a monk is to give up your employment!
However, the idea of ordaining unemployed men is not so strange. Any monk who is ordained with a view to a long-term in the robes is otherwise unemployed. Part of becoming a monk is to give up your employment!
Comment 6
Sint date : 14/09/2009 time : 15:42
date : 14/09/2009 time : 15:42
In Thailand, we have two biggest social problems. 1. Hindu culture/from nobles down to the very poor, we still have caste system. All the rituals are meant to dignify the upper class, thus the poor believe they are born to be poor and to suffer all their life. 2. We do not absorb the good culture of the West. Instead we copy their Hollywood, Playboy, Las Vegas, Wall Street and Sport celebrities (latest case, Serena Williams, not to mentioned the NBA players who boasted they have slept with thousands of women, since Wilt Chamberlain in 1960s) We have good, capable and highly disciplined monks but the Thais prefer quick fix to do all the rituals with bad monks(again a form of Hinduism). Not only Archarn Cha, deceased Phra Buddhadhas left behind so many excellent writings but we Thais just ignore them. Personally, I think if his books were written in English, he would have a chance for Philosophy Nobel Price. I am an atheist and believe only in philosophy or logic. There is no divinity. Buddha was dead more than 2552 years ago. But he left behind a great wisdom which we can use to cope with life. Just like we study math and science theories, written thousands of years ago by Chinese, Arabians and Jews. If we can eliminate Hinduism and learn good things from the West, we certainly can see a much better society.
Comment 7
Yoda date : 14/09/2009 time : 18:59
date : 14/09/2009 time : 18:59
I was ordained a few years ago at a temple famous for their practical and educational approach to Buddhism.
I gained quite a bit of insight and learned a lot about myself and human nature. However, it troubled me when I heard of rogue monks using their status to collect donations from lay people. Anyone ordained at a popular temple, realizes that there are vast amounts of money that people donate in good faith. I remember one Luang Phi telling me that if the rogues ever suspected a snitch, the potential tattletale monk would receive threats on his life.
Are monks killed for reporting such rogues? If not, why are good monks afraid to blow the whistle on such rogues that taint the religion as a whole? If so, why don't we hear about it in the news?
I highly doubt it's just a sabai sabai attitude in this case.
I gained quite a bit of insight and learned a lot about myself and human nature. However, it troubled me when I heard of rogue monks using their status to collect donations from lay people. Anyone ordained at a popular temple, realizes that there are vast amounts of money that people donate in good faith. I remember one Luang Phi telling me that if the rogues ever suspected a snitch, the potential tattletale monk would receive threats on his life.
Are monks killed for reporting such rogues? If not, why are good monks afraid to blow the whistle on such rogues that taint the religion as a whole? If so, why don't we hear about it in the news?
I highly doubt it's just a sabai sabai attitude in this case.
Comment 8
Carson date : 14/09/2009 time : 22:46
date : 14/09/2009 time : 22:46
I think your opinion is right too in some temple . But my view is different. I believed that to become a monk hood has to give up totally outside world and concentration on being pure non-attachment, kama and ego.
At the Temple in my home, Head of Monk has high education that he studied Master degree and work hard in the Wat management. The people whom come to be a monk must have past screened background and study for premonkhood for a month before enter. Every young Novices must study in the main time everyday. And also nuns, i was at once student. Invite you to visit Suan Mokkh, where monks and nun are not consider unemployed, because they educated people like teacher they got some paid for travel expend in teaching, and they always continue study to life up self revolutionized. some Monks and nun there are doctors, professor and most educated good. They came for real study not because unemployment reason. I think every Wat should has high standard like Suan Mokkh.
At the Temple in my home, Head of Monk has high education that he studied Master degree and work hard in the Wat management. The people whom come to be a monk must have past screened background and study for premonkhood for a month before enter. Every young Novices must study in the main time everyday. And also nuns, i was at once student. Invite you to visit Suan Mokkh, where monks and nun are not consider unemployed, because they educated people like teacher they got some paid for travel expend in teaching, and they always continue study to life up self revolutionized. some Monks and nun there are doctors, professor and most educated good. They came for real study not because unemployment reason. I think every Wat should has high standard like Suan Mokkh.
Comment 9
Ms Deng Kon Lao date : 15/09/2009 time : 00:39
date : 15/09/2009 time : 00:39
Please keep my name on your listing
If you have any news about the Thailand please sent to me.
I am Laotian live in Vientiane Laos
If you have any news about the Thailand please sent to me.
I am Laotian live in Vientiane Laos
Comment 10
Dhammacari date : 15/09/2009 time : 02:15
date : 15/09/2009 time : 02:15
Renouncing the world is of course a noble decision. But! It’s a big But! It’s not a good decision if someone renounces the world without having real faith in Buddha’s dispensation!
If the clerical council asked all temples to ordain unemployed men, they should also make sure that those men are getting proper monastic education and observing Monastic or Vinaya rules strictly. Without observing Monastic rules and practicing Dhamma, they will never get inner calm instead they will become greedy and pollute the Order.
To let you know that in Sri Lanka and Burma I have seen many monastic schools or privena within the Monastery compound where Buddhist novices and monks study dhamma. However, in Thailand, we can not see such kind of Monastic schools or privena. I notice that in the Wat, most of the monks possess very limited knowledge about Buddhism. They are just good enough to chant some Discourse or Sutta only.
Another thing is, in Thailand, traditionally, Buddhist monk does not preach to the laitty. If they don’t preach or tell what is good or bad, how could Thai society learn something about dhamma.
We can see many types of Buddhist conference are going on throughout the year and the Thai Govt. and clerical council have to spend a large amount of money to hold those conferences. Organizing conference is good for Buddhism and for Thai society! But what I would like to urge Thai Govt. and clerical council is to ensure and upgrade Buddhist monastic education in every Wat or part of Thailand i.e appointing qualified teacher, providing scholarship to the needy, maintaining international standard, etc.
Thanking you
Dhammacari
If the clerical council asked all temples to ordain unemployed men, they should also make sure that those men are getting proper monastic education and observing Monastic or Vinaya rules strictly. Without observing Monastic rules and practicing Dhamma, they will never get inner calm instead they will become greedy and pollute the Order.
To let you know that in Sri Lanka and Burma I have seen many monastic schools or privena within the Monastery compound where Buddhist novices and monks study dhamma. However, in Thailand, we can not see such kind of Monastic schools or privena. I notice that in the Wat, most of the monks possess very limited knowledge about Buddhism. They are just good enough to chant some Discourse or Sutta only.
Another thing is, in Thailand, traditionally, Buddhist monk does not preach to the laitty. If they don’t preach or tell what is good or bad, how could Thai society learn something about dhamma.
We can see many types of Buddhist conference are going on throughout the year and the Thai Govt. and clerical council have to spend a large amount of money to hold those conferences. Organizing conference is good for Buddhism and for Thai society! But what I would like to urge Thai Govt. and clerical council is to ensure and upgrade Buddhist monastic education in every Wat or part of Thailand i.e appointing qualified teacher, providing scholarship to the needy, maintaining international standard, etc.
Thanking you
Dhammacari
Comment 11
Sunthorn Skulpone date : 15/09/2009 time : 06:44
date : 15/09/2009 time : 06:44
Sanitsuda,
My heart bleeds for you for being discriminated against. There is no excuse whatsoever for what is happening in the wat.
I became a novice at age 11, and then ordained at 20 (becoming a monk again would make me a saint in Burma, but would we an untouchable CHAI SAM BOT). My point is, I am well qualified to express my opinion on this subject.
Budhism in Thailand has become commercialized. Monks have many million Baht in the Bank. Monks drive Mercedes Benze. Some monks even have a concubine. Don't laugh, I lived in many temples from 5th grade until graduation from college. Without the wat, I would not be here writing this piece, but truth bust be told.
Sanitsuda, I strongly agree with your last paragraph.
My heart bleeds for you for being discriminated against. There is no excuse whatsoever for what is happening in the wat.
I became a novice at age 11, and then ordained at 20 (becoming a monk again would make me a saint in Burma, but would we an untouchable CHAI SAM BOT). My point is, I am well qualified to express my opinion on this subject.
Budhism in Thailand has become commercialized. Monks have many million Baht in the Bank. Monks drive Mercedes Benze. Some monks even have a concubine. Don't laugh, I lived in many temples from 5th grade until graduation from college. Without the wat, I would not be here writing this piece, but truth bust be told.
Sanitsuda, I strongly agree with your last paragraph.
Comment 12
Its Mee date : 15/09/2009 time : 11:56
date : 15/09/2009 time : 11:56
I used to ordain but I did not have much opportunity to do the meditation practice. Traditionally, one of the idea on having a Thai man ordained, basically around the 20s, was to prepare Thai guys for hardship before they would get married. The preaching could help Thai guys to use wisdom to ease thier hardship of the family life.
However, nowadays, things have changed. Not many young Thai guys are interested in ordanation, it is all about the job commitment and a tough career schedule. It is sad to see in some rural area around my village that there was no monk in the temple. Therefore, the villagers needed to look for someone, which in the end can be anyone, to ordain and look after the temple. Under this circumstance, having a good monk seems to be based entirely on chances.
However, I believe that the idea on welcoming the unemployed to ordination is not wasting or over optimistic. At least, it should be a good chance for those who wish to become monk but could not do it earlier becuase of thier obligations. In addition, the unemployed migth prefer to find something to hold on during thier vulnerable-unemployed period. Meditation can help a lot in this case. A tigh measure should be introduced to garantee that the effectiveness of the ordination.
However, nowadays, things have changed. Not many young Thai guys are interested in ordanation, it is all about the job commitment and a tough career schedule. It is sad to see in some rural area around my village that there was no monk in the temple. Therefore, the villagers needed to look for someone, which in the end can be anyone, to ordain and look after the temple. Under this circumstance, having a good monk seems to be based entirely on chances.
However, I believe that the idea on welcoming the unemployed to ordination is not wasting or over optimistic. At least, it should be a good chance for those who wish to become monk but could not do it earlier becuase of thier obligations. In addition, the unemployed migth prefer to find something to hold on during thier vulnerable-unemployed period. Meditation can help a lot in this case. A tigh measure should be introduced to garantee that the effectiveness of the ordination.
Comment 13
Manop date : 16/09/2009 time : 09:36
date : 16/09/2009 time : 09:36
Just a minute in a monkhood is well worth for a Buddhist to learn the REAL. Feel your breathing is a good meditation. Not many realize about it. The monks have their way to practice and teach their disciples. This process is take time and the aptness of the new monks is also important.
Comment 14
Phra Erik date : 16/09/2009 time : 11:28
date : 16/09/2009 time : 11:28
I'm a Monk for 2 years and in Thailand for 7.
Yes, yes and yes. No, no and no. The problem in this kind of debate is everybody is right and everybody is wrong. For 7 years I'm here I'm used now to this kind of government decisions (whoever is leading) to find easy, fast and non-sense solutions to any problems the country faces. It is kept for few month and then forgotten. So no worries it's going to be the same.
This is just communication.
This is a basic statistic problem : more Monks you have more chance to have bad Monks you'll have. Then the "Keeping the face" attitude will allow this situation to stay as you don't ask to a student to redo his grade to avoid that you, the school, the family, the student loose face in the process.
It's the same in a Monastery. To change this you'll have to change the Thai culture perhaps in 100 years.
And don't forget that the same problem occurs in the Religion here than in the Western countries.
It's the universal human nature : cannot stop to be greedy and lazy.
Let's ourselves meditate 15 minutes every day and cease to judge others if we want to stop this.
Choke Dee & Meta
Yes, yes and yes. No, no and no. The problem in this kind of debate is everybody is right and everybody is wrong. For 7 years I'm here I'm used now to this kind of government decisions (whoever is leading) to find easy, fast and non-sense solutions to any problems the country faces. It is kept for few month and then forgotten. So no worries it's going to be the same.
This is just communication.
This is a basic statistic problem : more Monks you have more chance to have bad Monks you'll have. Then the "Keeping the face" attitude will allow this situation to stay as you don't ask to a student to redo his grade to avoid that you, the school, the family, the student loose face in the process.
It's the same in a Monastery. To change this you'll have to change the Thai culture perhaps in 100 years.
And don't forget that the same problem occurs in the Religion here than in the Western countries.
It's the universal human nature : cannot stop to be greedy and lazy.
Let's ourselves meditate 15 minutes every day and cease to judge others if we want to stop this.
Choke Dee & Meta
Comment 15
Dr. Kris date : 16/09/2009 time : 17:50
date : 16/09/2009 time : 17:50
I would really like to see a rule changed and a requirement set for all monks to have gone through a minimum of 3 month meditation retreat before becoming a preceptor. I became a novice at age 11 and stayed in monkhood until the age of 21 and left monkhood after having completed the 7th level of Pali study (Prian 7)to pursue college degrees. After completing my Ph.D. at an American university, I stayed in America and have been teaching in an American university since. Only about 10 years ago, I joined a medication group and learned meditation techniques. I would recommend that all new monks, novices included, be taught meditation, the benefits of which are too numerous to explain. Otherwise, their time in the monastery is wasted.
Comment 16
j date : 19/09/2009 time : 03:03
date : 19/09/2009 time : 03:03
I agree with Dr. Kris; I've seen too many "Paper Monks" while living here. They wear the robe and get the handouts every morning so they don't have to work and don't know the first thing about their own religion.
The whole "Monk for a month" is complete nonsense too, just a money maker for the greedy monks. I mean come on, you can stand on your head for a month, what can you possibly learn other than how to shave your head and eyebrows (eyebrows, WTF???) Let's try doing it for a year to learn real lessons about Buddhism and sacrifice shall we?
The whole "Monk for a month" is complete nonsense too, just a money maker for the greedy monks. I mean come on, you can stand on your head for a month, what can you possibly learn other than how to shave your head and eyebrows (eyebrows, WTF???) Let's try doing it for a year to learn real lessons about Buddhism and sacrifice shall we?
Comment 17
Ian Wensor date : 20/09/2009 time : 03:24
date : 20/09/2009 time : 03:24
Buddhism is overly commercialised and exploits the guilability of those who've been indoctrinated with false beliefs and superstition since birth. Those responsible need to make merit and follow LORD BUDDHA'S example by giving away their worldly wealth and helping those most in need !
Comment 18
Andy date : 21/09/2009 time : 05:19
date : 21/09/2009 time : 05:19
I beleive that this article does well to highlight the disorder in the monastic order in Thailand - and make transparent - the issues that truly plague Thai Buddhism...which are contrary to the image projected by the Thai Government (tourism industry in particular) and contrary to the sterotype upheld by westerners who fail to see the hyprocracy in a religous system that is mandated by the state and are completely unaware of Thai culture (outside of a tourist area where you can get a cheap massage and eat spicy food).
All the more disappointing is that programs like "Monk for a Month," regardless of how well intentioned they may be - ultimately propogate this false image of Thai Buddhism and Thai Culture.
More than anything, programs such as "Monk for a Month" are a reflection of the general ignorance of western people living and visiting in Thailand -to the issues degrading the monastic order, Thai culture, and the Thai government.
Monk for a Month does an excellent job of marketing their program...and ultimately an image "of Thai Buddhism and spiritual harmony" that is rotted to the core in Thailand.
Considering the high-rates charged for visitors in the Monk for a Month program (especially considering how far the dollar goes in Thailand) I would hope that the folks running this program would be open and honest with their clients about the "darker side" of Thailand and the state religion...and consider the ethical implications of a.) Making money for personal gain from a religous institution and b.) Propagting an image that covers over the state of corruption and moral degredation in the monkhood.
Failing to acknowledge these problems would unfortunately be antithetical to the work any NGO or "triple bottom line buisness" is trying to accomplish.
As the saying goes in Thai "Pak Chee Roy Na" or essentially..."surface over substance" remains the issue of the day for Thai culture, religion, and country.
All the more disappointing is that programs like "Monk for a Month," regardless of how well intentioned they may be - ultimately propogate this false image of Thai Buddhism and Thai Culture.
More than anything, programs such as "Monk for a Month" are a reflection of the general ignorance of western people living and visiting in Thailand -to the issues degrading the monastic order, Thai culture, and the Thai government.
Monk for a Month does an excellent job of marketing their program...and ultimately an image "of Thai Buddhism and spiritual harmony" that is rotted to the core in Thailand.
Considering the high-rates charged for visitors in the Monk for a Month program (especially considering how far the dollar goes in Thailand) I would hope that the folks running this program would be open and honest with their clients about the "darker side" of Thailand and the state religion...and consider the ethical implications of a.) Making money for personal gain from a religous institution and b.) Propagting an image that covers over the state of corruption and moral degredation in the monkhood.
Failing to acknowledge these problems would unfortunately be antithetical to the work any NGO or "triple bottom line buisness" is trying to accomplish.
As the saying goes in Thai "Pak Chee Roy Na" or essentially..."surface over substance" remains the issue of the day for Thai culture, religion, and country.
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