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Monday, November 30, 2009
Thailand's shocking inequity statistics
How will this political mess end? Will Thaksin Shinawatra finally return to haunt us with his bottomless greed? Or will the old, oppressive system that perpetuates social injustice prevail to suffocate us?
Is there any way out of this madness?
Ask historian/thinker Nidhi Eeo-seewong, and his answer is a resounding no. In his latest column in Matichon newspaper, he predicted that the proxy wars between the two ruling elite groups - one led by Thaksin, and the other by the old ruling clique - will not only continue to play out on the streets, but they would also get more violent.
"Thailand will never be the same again," he wrote. "There is no use in being nostalgic. Instead, we must put our heads together to find out how to minimise the damage."
How, indeed? How can normalcy return when the root problem of extreme economic disparity remains unaddressed?
How extreme? Prof Pasuk Phongpaichit did not leave room for doubt about our shamelessly unfair society in her recent keynote speech on "Towards a Fair Society" at the King Prachadhipok Institute conference. Among the glaring facts:
- The top 20% own 69% of the country's assets while the bottom 20% own only 1%.
- 42% of bank savings money comes from only 70,000 bank accounts holding more than 10 million baht. They make up only 0.09% of all bank accounts in the country. In other words, less than 1% of the people own nearly half of the country's savings.
- Among the farming families, nearly 20% of them are landless, or about 811,871 families, while 1-1.5 million farming families are tenants or struggling with insufficient land.
- 10% of land owners own more than 100 rai each, while the rest 90% own one rai or less.
- On income distribution, the top 20% enjoy more than 50% of the gross domestic product while the bottom 20% only 4%.
- The average income of the bottom 20% is the same as the poverty line at 1,443 baht per month.
- The gap between the richest and poorest family is 13 times, higher than all our neighbouring countries.
A fairer taxation system could reduce this economic disparity, she said. This can be done by expanding the base of direct taxpayers, introducing progressive land, inheritance, capital gains and interest taxes, for example. Unfortunately, the current taxation system worsens economic disparity by allowing easy tax evasion among the super rich while focusing on indirect taxation which treats the poor the same as the rich. Talk about justice!
State expenditure on free education, public health welfare, a comprehensive social security system and better agricultural policies have proven elsewhere to help bridge the gap, she said.
In Thailand, however, the amount of state expenditure is not only too small, most of them benefit the cities, thus worsening the gap between the rich and the poor.
The lack of political will among the power cliques and corruption are apparently Thailand's biggest obstacles. But the decline of public trust in parliamentary/money politics is no reason to debunk it, she insists. It is still the best system to allow democracy to grow more strongly, to effect fair taxation and state spending for the public good, to fight corruption and facilitate peaceful conflict resolution. "We just need to be patient."
Political scientist Seksan Prasertkul also offered his views on how to minimise Thailand's future pain. When society has become fragmented and pluralised by competing economic interests and globalisation pressures, the best damage-control strategy is to institutionalise participatory decision-making from the ground up, give political decentralisation a stronger push, and be more open to civil society voices.
As the clash of the titans looms, we should not let their cautionary advice go unheeded. For no matter who wins, their priority is to strengthen their interests and power. Without participatory politics, democracy will continue to be unstable. And without fixing the stark economic disparity through fairer taxation and state expenditure, the country's prospects ahead are indeed grim.
Read comment
Comment 2
Matt 
date : 30/11/2009 time : 09:11
date : 30/11/2009 time : 09:11
The country's prosepcts are indeed grim. Most invesmtent that should be developing Thailand is now going to Viet Nam.
Comment 3
John Limbo date : 30/11/2009 time : 11:04
date : 30/11/2009 time : 11:04
"10% of land owners own more than 100 rai each, while the rest 90% own one rai or less"
This statement I read in your article.
I am very sorry to air my doubts about the correctness of it. I actually know several Thai people who own inbetween 100 and 1 rai of land. A Thai friend told me even that most Thai farmers own inbetween 1 and 100 rai. The statement in your newspaper seems to neglect them completely. Why?
With kind regards,
Limbo
This statement I read in your article.
I am very sorry to air my doubts about the correctness of it. I actually know several Thai people who own inbetween 100 and 1 rai of land. A Thai friend told me even that most Thai farmers own inbetween 1 and 100 rai. The statement in your newspaper seems to neglect them completely. Why?
With kind regards,
Limbo
Comment 4
UP TO THE PEOPLE date : 30/11/2009 time : 11:47
As always, some interesting and important observations and statistics from Khun Sanitsuda.
And yes, nothing will change until the Thai people at large stop being apathetic about the political situation and stop voting for the leeches who mostly make up the parties and the parliament.
And even more important/critical is that the sincere and capable people who could guide and drive the country forward and who could develop and install policies and laws to distribute the wealth and create a more equal playing field will not come forward until they see strong signs that the electorate are becoming more serious, more selective and are actually rejecting the old gangs of thugs, leeches and thieves.
In other words it needs a middle class revolution (and I don't mean violence).
And yes, nothing will change until the Thai people at large stop being apathetic about the political situation and stop voting for the leeches who mostly make up the parties and the parliament.
And even more important/critical is that the sincere and capable people who could guide and drive the country forward and who could develop and install policies and laws to distribute the wealth and create a more equal playing field will not come forward until they see strong signs that the electorate are becoming more serious, more selective and are actually rejecting the old gangs of thugs, leeches and thieves.
In other words it needs a middle class revolution (and I don't mean violence).
Comment 5
Bancha S date : 30/11/2009 time : 12:22
date : 30/11/2009 time : 12:22
Thailand seems to have become a society without compassion.
Thank you, Khun Sanitsuda, for your well written article.
Thank you, Prof Pasuk Phongpaichit, for your eye-opening statistics.
Thank you, Khun Sanitsuda, for your well written article.
Thank you, Prof Pasuk Phongpaichit, for your eye-opening statistics.
Comment 6
noi date : 30/11/2009 time : 13:56
date : 30/11/2009 time : 13:56
Thaksin had tried to redistribute the wealth but look how the might reacted?
Comment 7
noi date : 30/11/2009 time : 13:58
date : 30/11/2009 time : 13:58
Thaksin had tried to redistribute the wealth but look how the mighty reacted?
Comment 8
Think! date : 30/11/2009 time : 22:06
There is no solution to the disparities illustrated in the article until ethics reform occurs in government from top to bottom. The current system is the translucent covering of an ultra corrupt system that everyone knows of but is unwilling to change. Reformist politicians with good intentions soon find themselves indocrinated and coerced into a secret society of corruption and greed that is inescapable. The challenges facing Thailand are monumental. This country will never be taken serious on the world stage until actual and lasting reform occur, unfortunately, history has shown that reform in these extreme cases comes by way of extreme measures.
Comment 9
whynot date : 30/11/2009 time : 23:37
date : 30/11/2009 time : 23:37
You mean taksin redistributed wealth to his own pocket?
I agree with the article that at the moment people don't have a real choice in the direction of a more equal distribution of wealth.
It will be a slow and hopefully not too violent long way.
I agree with the article that at the moment people don't have a real choice in the direction of a more equal distribution of wealth.
It will be a slow and hopefully not too violent long way.
Comment 10
Hey! date : 01/12/2009 time : 01:49
date : 01/12/2009 time : 01:49
noi at comment #6.
You are right, redistribute directly into his own pocket. Don't believe for a second that someone with billions and billions of baht made from a government monopoly would ever interested in seriously helping the poor.
You are right, redistribute directly into his own pocket. Don't believe for a second that someone with billions and billions of baht made from a government monopoly would ever interested in seriously helping the poor.
Comment 11
Ed date : 01/12/2009 time : 02:11
date : 01/12/2009 time : 02:11
Don't expect any change from the current administration. They are the the "ruling clique" after all so it's in their best interest to maintain the status quo.
Comment 14
Lek date : 01/12/2009 time : 04:46
date : 01/12/2009 time : 04:46
K. Sanitsuda only mentioned Thaksin's greed but what about his efforts to eradicate poverty while he was in power ?
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on who you are, Isan and northern people do not believe what Sanitsuda said and prefer to believe Thaksin instead.
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on who you are, Isan and northern people do not believe what Sanitsuda said and prefer to believe Thaksin instead.
Comment 15
SORRY NOI date : 01/12/2009 time : 05:07
Sorry Noi, can't agree with your assertion that Thaksin tried to redistribute the wealth.
I invite you to take a deeper look at the Thaksin era history, you might just find a different conclusion.
Redistribution of wealth should be through policy, appropriate laws and regulations ,and though focused mechanisms which strongly establish equal opportunity for all and guaranteed equal justice for all, not through hand-outs and manipulation of the poor and uneducated.
Comment 16
SORRY NOI date : 01/12/2009 time : 05:10
Sorry Noi, can't agree with your assertion that Thaksin tried to redistribute the wealth.
I invite you to take a deeper look at the Thaksin era history, you might just find a different conclusion.
Redistribution of wealth should be through policy, appropriate laws and regulations, and though focused mechanisms which strongly establish equal opportunity for all and guaranteed equal justice for all, not through hand-outs and manipulation of the poor and uneducated.
Must admit that T did achieve some redistribution, but the beficiaries were his own family and his cronies, not the poor.
Comment 17
SORRY NOI date : 01/12/2009 time : 05:11
Sorry Noi, can't agree with your assertion that Thaksin tried to redistribute the wealth.
I invite you to take a deeper look at the Thaksin era history, you might just find a different conclusion.
Redistribution of wealth should be through policy, appropriate laws and regulations, and though focused mechanisms which strongly establish equal opportunity for all and guaranteed equal justice for all, not through hand-outs and manipulation of the poor and uneducated.
Must admit that T did achieve some redistribution, but the beficiaries were his own family and his cronies, not the poor.
I invite you to take a deeper look at the Thaksin era history, you might just find a different conclusion.
Redistribution of wealth should be through policy, appropriate laws and regulations, and though focused mechanisms which strongly establish equal opportunity for all and guaranteed equal justice for all, not through hand-outs and manipulation of the poor and uneducated.
Must admit that T did achieve some redistribution, but the beficiaries were his own family and his cronies, not the poor.
Comment 18
Geoff O date : 01/12/2009 time : 08:44
date : 01/12/2009 time : 08:44
Thank you Khun Sanitsuda for your straight talk in this and previous article's. The country has changed so much in the last 20 years since I arrived. I recall the problem in the early 90's and how Khun Annand restored a sense of stability and confidence. Once an extremely safe and polite society , I experienced being spat at in my car on Sukhumvit Road by screaming red shirts last April while police looked on idly.
In todays Bangkok Post there is a confusing and saddening story about the nuclear plans. On one hand permission is being asked to proceed while noting that a viability assessment has not yet been completed. Thai staff have been sent to China for training last year even though the promoters insist that no decision has been made on using Chinese material.
The main point of your article talks about improving the tax take
The feeding frenzy for the nuclear project seems to be well under way. . How much longer can Thailand afford to feed so much to so few.
In todays Bangkok Post there is a confusing and saddening story about the nuclear plans. On one hand permission is being asked to proceed while noting that a viability assessment has not yet been completed. Thai staff have been sent to China for training last year even though the promoters insist that no decision has been made on using Chinese material.
The main point of your article talks about improving the tax take
The feeding frenzy for the nuclear project seems to be well under way. . How much longer can Thailand afford to feed so much to so few.
Comment 19
print_mind date : 01/12/2009 time : 16:53
date : 01/12/2009 time : 16:53
Join the discussion in the Forum.
category ‹ Local issues ‹ Thai business + economic issues
View on economy and society
category ‹ Local issues ‹ Thai business + economic issues
View on economy and society
I agree that the tax system should be expanded. As it is at the moment, too many workers aren't paying any income tax.You can legally earn THB 190,000 per year (almost 16,000 per month) and not pay any income tax. Check out the Thai Revenue Dept website.
http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html
http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html
Comment 21
meng date : 01/12/2009 time : 21:11
date : 01/12/2009 time : 21:11
When Thaksin was in power I didn't like his foreign policy as he was too cosy with China and other Asian communist countries. When his government was toppled by the military coup the military junta leaders claimed they carried out the coup to stop the corruption; they even purportedly issued a white book to detail Thanksin's allege corruption. I read the white book and there's no express proof of his corruption, so far the only best thing that the junta can do was to convict Thaksin for his consent signature on his former wife's auction paper. It's very easy to say that someone is corrupt without having to provide any proof. As I see it, it's the elitism of the oligarchy that looks down on more than 47 millions people who voted for Thaksin. There must be a least a few people who should be smart enough to see who Thaksin really is if he is really evil and corrupt.
Comment 22
John Limbo date : 02/12/2009 time : 06:06
date : 02/12/2009 time : 06:06
Sadly enough both red and yellow seem to have fascist elements. We all know that 'yellow' stood for a corrupt and injust power structure that created the go-ground for 'red' to gain power: It was in the yellow era the inequity within Thai society was created.
Now 'yellow', after a militayr coup that enables them to do so, suddenly starts to cry foul and acts as if 'red' would have invented corruption, abuse of power and institutionalised theft.
The good thing of the red movement is that it for the first time challenged a hegemony that originated in an old feodal structure.
The popularity of Mr. Thaksin is a symptom of a changing system. It will take several decades, but once Mr. Thaksin will enter the history books as a historical figure, if you like it or not!
Aside from the fact that he in many ways was a disaster politically: he was and still is a man with a face, to the contrary of those dark figures who are hiding themselves behind the friendly faces of the Bangkok middle class house wives and elderly who have enough spare time to be used as yellow clad puppets, listening to sometimes very deceiving speeches written by their invisible puppetmasters.
The arrogance with which 'yelllow' shows its contempt for the rural population of Thailand is sickening.
Yellow is causing a serious rift in society.
I hope that very soon a democratically chosen government will be able to turn the tide. For my part Mr. Abhisit could be part of it.
Long live King and Country!
Limbo
Now 'yellow', after a militayr coup that enables them to do so, suddenly starts to cry foul and acts as if 'red' would have invented corruption, abuse of power and institutionalised theft.
The good thing of the red movement is that it for the first time challenged a hegemony that originated in an old feodal structure.
The popularity of Mr. Thaksin is a symptom of a changing system. It will take several decades, but once Mr. Thaksin will enter the history books as a historical figure, if you like it or not!
Aside from the fact that he in many ways was a disaster politically: he was and still is a man with a face, to the contrary of those dark figures who are hiding themselves behind the friendly faces of the Bangkok middle class house wives and elderly who have enough spare time to be used as yellow clad puppets, listening to sometimes very deceiving speeches written by their invisible puppetmasters.
The arrogance with which 'yelllow' shows its contempt for the rural population of Thailand is sickening.
Yellow is causing a serious rift in society.
I hope that very soon a democratically chosen government will be able to turn the tide. For my part Mr. Abhisit could be part of it.
Long live King and Country!
Limbo
Comment 23
Sam tucker date : 02/12/2009 time : 07:22
date : 02/12/2009 time : 07:22
Meng needs to grown up. Thaksin has already been convicted of corruption and it has already been proven. Down with thaksin and his red-shirted terrorists. Down with Cambodia.
Comment 24
the watcher date : 02/12/2009 time : 09:33
date : 02/12/2009 time : 09:33
Good article and shed some statistics about inequality in Thailand.
Anyway, some figures might be questionable and I believe this was caused by
minimising the article.
Regarding Khun Taksin and political elites, I can only see the different as greater
and lesser evils.
Anyway, some figures might be questionable and I believe this was caused by
minimising the article.
Regarding Khun Taksin and political elites, I can only see the different as greater
and lesser evils.
Comment 25
David date : 02/12/2009 time : 10:17
date : 02/12/2009 time : 10:17
Thanks for a good article. My prayers are with you all.
David
David
Comment 26
Terry date : 02/12/2009 time : 13:51
date : 02/12/2009 time : 13:51If Thaksin does not serve his jail term and face his other trials then there would be no rule of law in Thailand.
That's the bottom line
Comment 27
Bill Canada date : 02/12/2009 time : 13:53
date : 02/12/2009 time : 13:53
"The arrogance with which 'yelllow' shows its contempt for the rural population of Thailand is sickening".
The above quote from Mr. Limbo's comment#22 reminded me of another quote. It is a quote from visa pages in a United States passport and reads:
"Democracy is based on the conviction that there are extraordinary possibilities in ordinary people". -Harry Emerson Fosdick
Of course elitists, 'yellow' 'red' or 'red, white and blue', for that matter, don't want to hear about that kind of democracy. They prefer:
"Give me control of a Nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Bauer (Rothschild)
The above quote from Mr. Limbo's comment#22 reminded me of another quote. It is a quote from visa pages in a United States passport and reads:
"Democracy is based on the conviction that there are extraordinary possibilities in ordinary people". -Harry Emerson Fosdick
Of course elitists, 'yellow' 'red' or 'red, white and blue', for that matter, don't want to hear about that kind of democracy. They prefer:
"Give me control of a Nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Bauer (Rothschild)
Comment 28
Sunthorn Skulpone date : 03/12/2009 time : 00:33
date : 03/12/2009 time : 00:33
Our situation in Thailand now is the result of the way the country operate for more than 700 years. Very few people at the top get all the wealth. The problem got worse when centralization was implemented. To fix the problem we must proceed with decentralization, wealth redistribution come at the top of the list. It took 700 years for us to get in this trouble, so it will take time to get out of it. It will not be as bad as some predicted. The country is moving in the right direction now. In the next few years, we must fix the political problem. Make sure the MPs are the true representatives of the people. Most important of all is to make sure bad people like Thaksin does not gain power to run the country. In my opinion, PM Abhisit is the right man to lead the country right now. New Politics Party is the one who will lead the country next, say, ten years from now.
Comment 29
DEAR MENG date : 03/12/2009 time : 04:19
date : 03/12/2009 time : 04:19
Reply to Meng.
I really wish people would not quote totally wrong statistics to try to support their claims. You say 47million Thais voted for Thaksin? What's the source of this data please?
Further, you deliberately make no comment about the numerous claims and the mass of evidence of massive vote buying during this era. Plus the fact that the EC members went to jail.
Further, you seem to be suggesting that there is no evidence of corruption in the T period. Perhaps you'd like to take a look at the numerous cases slowly working their way through the Thai court system. And perhaps you'd like to take a look at the numerous pieces of specific evidence which have been appearing in the newspapers day by day about the current case, for which it is forecast that the verdict will be given mid January 2010.
Look forward to your further comments
I really wish people would not quote totally wrong statistics to try to support their claims. You say 47million Thais voted for Thaksin? What's the source of this data please?
Further, you deliberately make no comment about the numerous claims and the mass of evidence of massive vote buying during this era. Plus the fact that the EC members went to jail.
Further, you seem to be suggesting that there is no evidence of corruption in the T period. Perhaps you'd like to take a look at the numerous cases slowly working their way through the Thai court system. And perhaps you'd like to take a look at the numerous pieces of specific evidence which have been appearing in the newspapers day by day about the current case, for which it is forecast that the verdict will be given mid January 2010.
Look forward to your further comments
Comment 30
mattaya date : 03/12/2009 time : 07:37
Meng Comment 21
47,000,000 people voted FOR Thakscum?
What is the voting age here,5? What is the population of Thailand. How much of that population is of voting age? What percent of eligible voters actauuly voted? I know most Thais are not good at it, but do the math, 47,000,000? Not even if everyone voted 5 times would you see numbers like that.
Comment 31
mayaspringsteen date : 03/12/2009 time : 12:24
date : 03/12/2009 time : 12:24
It should be glaringly obvious to all that Thailand is unique in it's having a rigidly imposed caste/sakdina system, thus underpinning the iniquities between the poor - many and the rich - few.
The Thai people need to stop their blind faith in either the old style 'elite', and Taksin is an option on the road to a Cambodia/Burma style regime.
Once the Thai people are in a position to think 'for themselves', without recourse to any figure, of any ilk, they think will sort their problems out for them, I hope they will have the opportunity to determine their own futures. I'm not optimistic.
The Thai people need to stop their blind faith in either the old style 'elite', and Taksin is an option on the road to a Cambodia/Burma style regime.
Once the Thai people are in a position to think 'for themselves', without recourse to any figure, of any ilk, they think will sort their problems out for them, I hope they will have the opportunity to determine their own futures. I'm not optimistic.
Comment 33
Alai na? date : 04/12/2009 time : 04:31
date : 04/12/2009 time : 04:31
In the US, 71% of wealth is owned by just the top 10% (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth), and 84% of wealth is owned by the top 20%. The inequity is more severe than in Thailand. This doesn't mean Thailand is doing just fine, but it could be worse.
Wealth distribution data alone is insufficient, for you have to take tax distribution data into account in the same breath. I didn't see tax data in this article.
Wealth distribution data alone is insufficient, for you have to take tax distribution data into account in the same breath. I didn't see tax data in this article.
Comment 34
Jaree L date : 04/12/2009 time : 17:24
date : 04/12/2009 time : 17:24
Totally agreed with 'Up to the people'. All Thai people should vote for the reps that would/could move the country forward, and NOT the reps that promised to give them more freebies. "Ask what you can do for your country and not what the country can do for you"!
Comment 35
Tip date : 05/12/2009 time : 00:58
date : 05/12/2009 time : 00:58
History always repeat itself. Changes in Globalisation and society evolution have they own courses. This is the case everywhere. We can look back in the history of EU, US, Russia, China. Changes is certain in life, it's not if but when and how. Thai society has been through some changes and we should all learn lessons from the past, improve change process to cope with future changes which will be sooner with globalisation, technology and economic development. Capitalism, being the best economic model, proven, comes along with inequity as people are different in capability, quality and access to resources. It's our job to maintain the gap to affordable level. When the gap is too wide some correction will happen. How strong or violent the correction process is depend on how we allow the process to take place. We need to let the steam out gradually otherwise the society will burst. We need a democratic and transparent process to voice opinion and freedom of speech. The longer people are denied the process, the stronger correction it will be. Society and people will always resume to equilibrium. We must decide whether we want to be part of the problem or solution.
Comment 36
Jim date : 05/12/2009 time : 02:13
quote:
42% of bank savings money comes from only 70,000 bank accounts holding more than 10 million baht.
Guess this must be an error as 10 million bath is nothing !
There is no facet of the nation which is left without blemish, whether religious,political,
commercial or education.Only the monarchy has the moral high ground and we pray that His Majesty on this auspicious day on his 82nd Birthday will once again provide the direction and the motivation to extricate the Kingdom from moral turpitude and intellectual stagnancy.
May the Blessings of the Dharma shower Him with joy and good health.
Jamshed K. Fozdar
commercial or education.Only the monarchy has the moral high ground and we pray that His Majesty on this auspicious day on his 82nd Birthday will once again provide the direction and the motivation to extricate the Kingdom from moral turpitude and intellectual stagnancy.
May the Blessings of the Dharma shower Him with joy and good health.
Jamshed K. Fozdar
There is no facet of the nation which is left without blemish, whether religious,political,
commercial or education.Only the monarchy has the moral high ground and we pray that His Majesty on this auspicious day on his 82nd Birthday will once again provide the direction and the motivation to extricate the Kingdom from moral turpitude and intellectual stagnancy.
May the Blessings of the Dharma shower Him with joy and good health.
Jamshed K. Fozdar
commercial or education.Only the monarchy has the moral high ground and we pray that His Majesty on this auspicious day on his 82nd Birthday will once again provide the direction and the motivation to extricate the Kingdom from moral turpitude and intellectual stagnancy.
May the Blessings of the Dharma shower Him with joy and good health.
Jamshed K. Fozdar
Comment 39
Paul Fillion date : 05/12/2009 time : 14:44
date : 05/12/2009 time : 14:44
If 10 % of landowners have 100 rai or more and 90% have less than one rai, who has more than 1 rai and less than 100 rai?????
Wealth distribution statistics are shocking for the entire world.
Thailand's are not unusual.
The solution is for everybody to have only one child for the next 100 years so that the assets of 4 parents are left to each couple.
The world should return to the 1 billion population of 1900 instead of adding a billion every 10 - 15 years now.
Wealth distribution statistics are shocking for the entire world.
Thailand's are not unusual.
The solution is for everybody to have only one child for the next 100 years so that the assets of 4 parents are left to each couple.
The world should return to the 1 billion population of 1900 instead of adding a billion every 10 - 15 years now.
Comment 40
Paul Fillion date : 05/12/2009 time : 14:52
date : 05/12/2009 time : 14:52
If 10% of landowners have 100 rai or more and the other 90% have 1 rai or less, then nobody has more than 1 rai and less than 100????? Sorry, I'm an engineer.
The wealth inequality statistics for the entire world are shocking.
I suggest 100 years of everybody having only one child so that the assets of 4 parents are left to each couple.
This would restore the world's population to 1 billion, as it was in 1900.
The world now has some 6.5 billion people and is adding another billion every 10 - 15 years.
Any type of redistribution would only make everybody poor, and the reduction in motivation would ensure worsening poverty.
Another suggestion, stop the Thai tradition of the family member with the deepest pockets being expected to take care of everybody elses problems.
There is no point to try to get ahead if the result is simply a queque of relatives at the door with their hands out.
The wealth inequality statistics for the entire world are shocking.
I suggest 100 years of everybody having only one child so that the assets of 4 parents are left to each couple.
This would restore the world's population to 1 billion, as it was in 1900.
The world now has some 6.5 billion people and is adding another billion every 10 - 15 years.
Any type of redistribution would only make everybody poor, and the reduction in motivation would ensure worsening poverty.
Another suggestion, stop the Thai tradition of the family member with the deepest pockets being expected to take care of everybody elses problems.
There is no point to try to get ahead if the result is simply a queque of relatives at the door with their hands out.
Comment 41
manchesterian date : 06/12/2009 time : 08:21
date : 06/12/2009 time : 08:21
In the UK when you go into politics you say "What can I do for my country" In Thailand the politicians say " What can my country do for me" !
Comment 42
manchesterian date : 06/12/2009 time : 08:25
date : 06/12/2009 time : 08:25
If this country was in Europe the downtrodden masses would of taken to the streets. The rich ruling class(who use there own people as chattels) are lucky that Thai's are so docile and non confrontational
Comment 43
rukthai date : 06/12/2009 time : 13:09
date : 06/12/2009 time : 13:09
Having just read the article & the comments I am moved to think of how my students can bring about change in Thailand - For it’s the young that we have robbed & pillaged from.
We, the older generation have left them the legacy of greed and "Thailand seems to have become a society without compassion." (Comment 5)
We walk by those who have nothing - Whose children are hungry & ill-educated - We moan about the likes of Thaksin - A person who we identify as a corrupt thief – Not a Politician, more a manipulator – Yet we rob & pillage the poor - We know that the King preaches "sufficiency", but it doesn't apply to us - Does it? NO - We need the 4X4, the latest phone, all the things money can buy.
Maybe when we have everything then we will consider the less fortunate – We are not like Thaksin, are we?
Meanwhile, those less fortunate can wait – Surely it is the luck of the draw – They were born poor, so should remain there – Servants to the rich – Can’t consider sharing – Sharing would dilute what we have – No, No – Lets leave things as they are.
Is this what we teach our children? – Who is the ‘We’ referred to?
We, the older generation have left them the legacy of greed and "Thailand seems to have become a society without compassion." (Comment 5)
We walk by those who have nothing - Whose children are hungry & ill-educated - We moan about the likes of Thaksin - A person who we identify as a corrupt thief – Not a Politician, more a manipulator – Yet we rob & pillage the poor - We know that the King preaches "sufficiency", but it doesn't apply to us - Does it? NO - We need the 4X4, the latest phone, all the things money can buy.
Maybe when we have everything then we will consider the less fortunate – We are not like Thaksin, are we?
Meanwhile, those less fortunate can wait – Surely it is the luck of the draw – They were born poor, so should remain there – Servants to the rich – Can’t consider sharing – Sharing would dilute what we have – No, No – Lets leave things as they are.
Is this what we teach our children? – Who is the ‘We’ referred to?
Comment 44
Thaifrelst date : 06/12/2009 time : 16:57
date : 06/12/2009 time : 16:57I really dont understand why this have to be that difficult. Thailand have as far I can see normal income tax. The people with high income pay more then people with low income.
The tav4cfc2tsq5x go to the government for being used on health, schools, roads, infra structure and peoples well beings ( pension-social benefits, etcetera.
What happens in Thailand? Do the government give the tax money back to the rich?
Why is everything that is easy in the western world almost impossible in Thailand?
Comment 45
KevinKhmer date : 07/12/2009 time : 01:42
date : 07/12/2009 time : 01:42
As much as I don't like Thaksin, I and millions of others throughout the world knew that his conviction is politically motivated and without due process of the law. He was deposed by military coup and therefore, I and millions of others throughout the world truly believe that the current administration and government is irrelevant and illegitimate. It does not matter how prestige the current administration received from the people through poll and rating; it remains the same that their means to power through corruption and military appointment. There weren’t an election.
Truly ASIA!!!
Truly ASIA!!!
Comment 46
Nazri date : 07/12/2009 time : 04:44
date : 07/12/2009 time : 04:44
Worldly existence is fundamentally constrained and unremittingly unfulfilling, for all its technological innovations. Wasn't Siddharta Gautama once a wealthy prince of the land? The root cause of this suffering are the devilish and animal instincts and wrong understanding of the universal nature and needs of the individual self, and therefore of all human beings. Did not the Buddha reject the Hindu caste prejudice into which he was "high born"?
How are we going to work towards an equitable and just society if we tell those men who preach and work for compassion and detachment in the government to retire behind the walls of the monastery? Who will follow in the footsteps of the religious King Bhumibol, who bows to his pure conscience and with proper knowledge works for the good of other sentient beings?
How are we going to work towards an equitable and just society if we tell those men who preach and work for compassion and detachment in the government to retire behind the walls of the monastery? Who will follow in the footsteps of the religious King Bhumibol, who bows to his pure conscience and with proper knowledge works for the good of other sentient beings?
Comment 47
Nazri date : 07/12/2009 time : 04:49
date : 07/12/2009 time : 04:49
Worldly existence is fundamentally constrained and unremittingly unfulfilling, for all its technological innovations. Wasn't Siddharta Gautama once a wealthy prince of the land? The root cause of this suffering are the devilish and animal instincts and wrong understanding of the universal nature and needs of the individual self, and therefore of all human beings. Did not the Buddha reject the Hindu caste prejudice into which he was "high born"?
How are we going to work towards an equitable and just society if we tell those men who preach and work for compassion and detachment in the government to retire behind the walls of the monastery? Who will follow in the footsteps of the religious King Bhumibol, who bows to his pure conscience and with proper knowledge works for the good of other sentient beings?
How are we going to work towards an equitable and just society if we tell those men who preach and work for compassion and detachment in the government to retire behind the walls of the monastery? Who will follow in the footsteps of the religious King Bhumibol, who bows to his pure conscience and with proper knowledge works for the good of other sentient beings?
Comment 48
NPB date : 07/12/2009 time : 05:45
date : 07/12/2009 time : 05:45
I will leave this debate to others more knowledgeable on the subject but would like to inject on aspect into all these debates, population control. I have been told that the population of Thailand was 6 million only 60 years ago. If this is true, the population growth rate needs to be addressed immediately. In light of such growth, it is also important to understand that the poor, who often have more children and less land than the rich, suffer most from this enourmous population growth.
This is not a problem that is easily solved, but people need to be aware of the problems associated with population growth (which also drives pollution, water & food demand, deforestation, overfishing etc) and so that they can gain perspective on the need to have many children in order to provide a safety net for your old age.
This is not a problem that is easily solved, but people need to be aware of the problems associated with population growth (which also drives pollution, water & food demand, deforestation, overfishing etc) and so that they can gain perspective on the need to have many children in order to provide a safety net for your old age.
Comment 49
somrai date : 07/12/2009 time : 20:40
date : 07/12/2009 time : 20:40
I will go with choice C - the old oppressive system will (is) suffocate (suffocating) you and this lovely, but increasingly sad country.
Comment 50
chop date : 08/12/2009 time : 07:56
date : 08/12/2009 time : 07:56
When yellows pointed finger to Thaksin as cheating or bottomless greed, there is no concert evidence to substantiate their concocted story but there is strong evidence that he makes Thailand progress and wealthy as leader of ASEAN than any other Thai PM did before.
No justice, Court under the control of homosexual military leader, Thailand can not be peaceful. Time passes over four years after Homo gangs overthrew Thaksin Gov but there is no success of eradication of Thaksin. Thaksin and Democracy finally will prevail due to the death of Hopmosexual military leader.
No justice, Court under the control of homosexual military leader, Thailand can not be peaceful. Time passes over four years after Homo gangs overthrew Thaksin Gov but there is no success of eradication of Thaksin. Thaksin and Democracy finally will prevail due to the death of Hopmosexual military leader.
Comment 51
Dr. Steven K. date : 09/12/2009 time : 04:31
date : 09/12/2009 time : 04:31
My 4 years of living in Thailand were during the Thaksin era. The economy rebounded and the rising tide was beginning to lift all boats. He threatened the power and wealth of many of the elites, and so they got rid of him.
Was he corrupt? yes. As are most all BKK politicians including the current PM. They just feel more comfortable being led by a trust fund kid, Abhisit, who has more ties to the UK than Thailand, then by a self-made billionaire.
Thailand will continue to squander it's economic potential under the current administration.
Was he corrupt? yes. As are most all BKK politicians including the current PM. They just feel more comfortable being led by a trust fund kid, Abhisit, who has more ties to the UK than Thailand, then by a self-made billionaire.
Thailand will continue to squander it's economic potential under the current administration.
Comment 52
Tbone date : 09/12/2009 time : 06:08
date : 09/12/2009 time : 06:08
you kidding me Thai cant do nothing?!?! I think Thai can do alot. Voice your opinion, question your life, society and govt and VOTE!!! Ignore all the those that tell you to vote this and that, vote for what will help you and your kids future. Vote for those that have your vision your wants and concern and harass/hound them.
If you keep saying there nothing we can do. Well, if you don't start who will?
If you keep saying there nothing we can do. Well, if you don't start who will?
Comment 53
uh_huh date : 09/12/2009 time : 14:01
date : 09/12/2009 time : 14:01
Well, let's not get people upset by statistics. As long as the celebrations are extended along Ratchadamnoen and people follow the beloved monarch's plan for peace - he is the richest monarch in the world, so he should be listened to - everything will be right in the Land of Smiles. Let's not think too much. Sanuk mak mak! Statistics...mai sanuk.
Comment 54
pierre corso date : 09/12/2009 time : 22:54
date : 09/12/2009 time : 22:54
How many percents of all Thai population today have been informed or have realized about this shocking statistic?
Many are certainly aware of these alarming numbers and most are,no doubt, living their daily lives in this sad reality. However,Thailand is a democratic country and so Thai people can vote to choose their representatives in the congress and government. Therefore,they're the principle responsible for their country's direction. They don't actually live in total ignorant Middle Age.
Have they ever asked themselves what they have learned from their good and bad experiences with all those precedent leaders and governments since the coutry turned democratic ? What have they done so far to make it out better than those old days?
As long as they keep idolizing persons who lead them instead of defending real political conviction, the country will never find real stability. Nothing comes out without effort and sacrifice.
Many are certainly aware of these alarming numbers and most are,no doubt, living their daily lives in this sad reality. However,Thailand is a democratic country and so Thai people can vote to choose their representatives in the congress and government. Therefore,they're the principle responsible for their country's direction. They don't actually live in total ignorant Middle Age.
Have they ever asked themselves what they have learned from their good and bad experiences with all those precedent leaders and governments since the coutry turned democratic ? What have they done so far to make it out better than those old days?
As long as they keep idolizing persons who lead them instead of defending real political conviction, the country will never find real stability. Nothing comes out without effort and sacrifice.
Comment 55
Think date : 10/12/2009 time : 20:11
When Thaksin was in power two major events happened for the poor and people seem to forget:
- massive social security net through low cost care
- micro-finance lending foor rural areas
The later is the most important to get out of poverty and has already proven itself in many parts of the world. By covering the working capital, poors can finally get out of their debts and create growth. Creating growth enables them to put their children in education, and you all know the rest...
How do you think South Korea became as developped at it is now? by creating growth in the countryside and enabling rural children to get descent education.
How come with all the good will of the royal family or any goverment in power in the past, that nothing on a massive scale like these happened???
Thaksin made it happened.
Comment 56
meng date : 10/12/2009 time : 21:48
Sam tucker - No Thaksin was not convicted for corruption. His conviction was for his consenting signature on his wife's sealed bidding document for the rajada's piece of land. And it was an orchestrated conviction by the junta.
Comment 57
gigi date : 11/12/2009 time : 04:07
date : 11/12/2009 time : 04:07
thanks again for your article that brought up essential information for readers especially Thai people who have not been provided this kind of information often and easily. Too bad that most government authories seem blind or even conceal such fact that has long eaten our society and country.
The only way that can save Thailand and Thai people from the doom is that Thai people especially the government authorities, politicians, policemen, businesmen, media people and scholars at least show their responsibility and integrity, if there is some remaining. I emphasized those categories while excluding farmers, labours and other grass root people not because i saw little importance of the latter. But those i mentioned have more power and abilities to make greater changes for the better more rapidly and with their fair mind and intention. So far, most of them hardly show such essential qualities i wish for but their greed, self-interest and biases that lead the country to the worst as we see now.
Thaksin certainly cannot be called a good example of decency or integrity. But he is not the only one to be condemned and brought to justice as soon as possible. There are many , or too many, more of this kind that we must not promote or even agree with what they say or do. Bad news is that they are still enjoying their power , authority, greed while killing the whole society with no shame.
The only way that can save Thailand and Thai people from the doom is that Thai people especially the government authorities, politicians, policemen, businesmen, media people and scholars at least show their responsibility and integrity, if there is some remaining. I emphasized those categories while excluding farmers, labours and other grass root people not because i saw little importance of the latter. But those i mentioned have more power and abilities to make greater changes for the better more rapidly and with their fair mind and intention. So far, most of them hardly show such essential qualities i wish for but their greed, self-interest and biases that lead the country to the worst as we see now.
Thaksin certainly cannot be called a good example of decency or integrity. But he is not the only one to be condemned and brought to justice as soon as possible. There are many , or too many, more of this kind that we must not promote or even agree with what they say or do. Bad news is that they are still enjoying their power , authority, greed while killing the whole society with no shame.
Comment 58
cor date : 11/12/2009 time : 13:04
date : 11/12/2009 time : 13:04
How I wish for someone like Khun Anand to set up a government with Khun Sanitsuda as Minister of the Interior (dream)
Comment 59
TraderVic date : 12/12/2009 time : 13:51
date : 12/12/2009 time : 13:51
Sad to see any intelligent observations being diverted towards pro/against Thaksin.
To all of you who attack Thaksin: YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE 2006 MILITARY COUP!
You are undemocratic, ignoring the voice of the North and Northeast of Thailand, and you dare to do it out of a sense of supremacy. ut
Thaksin was/is no a ngel in shining armor but even with a law system designed by the coup makers, the only conviction is questionable and PATHETIC .
To all of you who attack Thaksin: YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE 2006 MILITARY COUP!
You are undemocratic, ignoring the voice of the North and Northeast of Thailand, and you dare to do it out of a sense of supremacy. ut
Thaksin was/is no a ngel in shining armor but even with a law system designed by the coup makers, the only conviction is questionable and PATHETIC .
Comment 60
TraderVic date : 12/12/2009 time : 15:22
date : 12/12/2009 time : 15:22
This post by Sanitsuda is to be commended.
Deal with the inequity! Do not blame Thaksin for bringing it to the surface
Deal with the inequity! Do not blame Thaksin for bringing it to the surface
Comment 61
AI BA date : 13/12/2009 time : 05:08
Thailand is in this situation because own created god would like to be the only one god. So Thaksin god must be ground. Corruption then is easier. Soldier just transfer the amount she request.
Comment 62
Sunthorn Skulpone date : 14/12/2009 time : 01:22
date : 14/12/2009 time : 01:22
I read Comment 43 with the feeling that there is no hope for our children. I beg to be different. Things go up and down in cycle. We are now in the down period, when the lowest point is reached then we are going up.
The problem now as I see it is that we look at the snapshot of the video and magnify it until it is bluring.
We need to step back and look at the whole video with a pair of eyeglasses.
All we have to do is to look back in history at the times of King Naresuan and King Taksin. YES, I have no doubt that things will play out and our children generation will do just fine.
The problem now as I see it is that we look at the snapshot of the video and magnify it until it is bluring.
We need to step back and look at the whole video with a pair of eyeglasses.
All we have to do is to look back in history at the times of King Naresuan and King Taksin. YES, I have no doubt that things will play out and our children generation will do just fine.
Comment 63
Soonthorn Ungtrakul date : 14/12/2009 time : 14:15
date : 14/12/2009 time : 14:15
We have been blaming inequality and corrupted politicians for our problems for too long. Perhaps it is the time to ask ourselves why and how these things happen regularly and predictably like menstrual cycle. These behaviors are not genetically coded in our DNA; they are learned. Perhaps we've all, already known this but are afraid to ask the hard question. Why all our politicians are corrupt and they are all Thai like us. So we need to stop fooling ourselves. I, too, hate inequality and corruptions but absolutely love to be one of the politicians.
Comment 64
jenny date : 14/12/2009 time : 17:14
date : 14/12/2009 time : 17:14
thailand does not have proper laws to justify inequity.
Comment 65
Orange Shirt date : 17/12/2009 time : 06:24
date : 17/12/2009 time : 06:24
Sanisuda,
As always, you are earning your living by selling out your country. Stop pestering Thai people. You are not offering anything new. You solution is copied from Thaksin.
By the way, you spelled "minimize" incorrectly.
Shame!
As always, you are earning your living by selling out your country. Stop pestering Thai people. You are not offering anything new. You solution is copied from Thaksin.
By the way, you spelled "minimize" incorrectly.
Shame!
Comment 66
Orange Shirt date : 17/12/2009 time : 19:08
date : 17/12/2009 time : 19:08
Oh! Rich people taking advantages of the working class is a problem as old as human history. There is nothing pertaining to being Thai here.
To Red Shirts and Yellow Shirts: I am a Thai working in the USA. I can share with you one thing. Vietnamese boat people whose lives we saved during the 70'2 are laughing at our stupid fight. They want to see Thailand separated like their country. You can see, the Cambodian PM is trying to contribute to that too.
Sanisuda and Thai media, could you please learn from the west --They only post positive things about their countries. Free press is a Bullshit talk. American media always feeds their population with how great their country is. The whole financial system here is corrupted, yet they remain positive! Gee...only if Thai media could be smarter!!!
To Red Shirts and Yellow Shirts: I am a Thai working in the USA. I can share with you one thing. Vietnamese boat people whose lives we saved during the 70'2 are laughing at our stupid fight. They want to see Thailand separated like their country. You can see, the Cambodian PM is trying to contribute to that too.
Sanisuda and Thai media, could you please learn from the west --They only post positive things about their countries. Free press is a Bullshit talk. American media always feeds their population with how great their country is. The whole financial system here is corrupted, yet they remain positive! Gee...only if Thai media could be smarter!!!
Comment 67
KevinKhmer date : 20/12/2009 time : 06:58
date : 20/12/2009 time : 06:58
Orange Shirt
You are Thai citizen work in the US. If you shamed the author because of one misspelled word, you should have been the expert to check your own grammar and sentences.
Thais did not save Vietnamese boatpeople, Cambodian and Lao refugees during the Indochina War. Their lives were saved by the United Nation. Their lives were saved by their own free will, determination and adrenalines to be free. On a contrary, Thai military, pirates, and criminals contributed significantly to thousands of deaths, maimed, killed, murdered, and drowned, and raped of boatpeople and refugees.
Vietnamese boatpeople, Khmer and Lao refugees have not forgotten their peril past. We settled throughout the U.S. Some have elected to Congress, Mayor, Governor and some have achieved the ultimate dream to be a doctor, lawyer, professor, and entrepreneur. You should applaud them for all these accomplishments. You should judge us more accurately. We do not enjoy seeing Thai fighting Thai. We have been there and there is no peace and happiness in bloodshed. Please leave Vietnamese boatpeople and Cambodian refugees out of your internal strife.
Thanks
You are Thai citizen work in the US. If you shamed the author because of one misspelled word, you should have been the expert to check your own grammar and sentences.
Thais did not save Vietnamese boatpeople, Cambodian and Lao refugees during the Indochina War. Their lives were saved by the United Nation. Their lives were saved by their own free will, determination and adrenalines to be free. On a contrary, Thai military, pirates, and criminals contributed significantly to thousands of deaths, maimed, killed, murdered, and drowned, and raped of boatpeople and refugees.
Vietnamese boatpeople, Khmer and Lao refugees have not forgotten their peril past. We settled throughout the U.S. Some have elected to Congress, Mayor, Governor and some have achieved the ultimate dream to be a doctor, lawyer, professor, and entrepreneur. You should applaud them for all these accomplishments. You should judge us more accurately. We do not enjoy seeing Thai fighting Thai. We have been there and there is no peace and happiness in bloodshed. Please leave Vietnamese boatpeople and Cambodian refugees out of your internal strife.
Thanks
Comment 68
vijay date : 23/12/2009 time : 10:21
date : 23/12/2009 time : 10:21
Thought provoking article. It helped me realise that the Thai people do not really have a choice and the choice is between the devil and the deep sea.
Comment 69
Interested date : 25/12/2009 time : 16:52
date : 25/12/2009 time : 16:52
It is encouraging to see so many participating in this discussion, even if such a high percentage of participants must do so without the aid of a good understanding.
Statements like in post #1 that claim the VAT taxes rich and poor equally are simply naive. It is true that sales taxes charge an equal rate per purchase to the rich and poor, but they actually cost the rich more baht per year since the rich make more purchases. It is generally accepted that the VAT costs the rich a lower percentage of their total wealth each year, but the fact is that the poor pay less total VAT than the rich. Is that equal? Not at all. Is that fair? You decide.
Statements like "Thaksin is a self-made billionaire" are equally naive. Thaksin was made a billionaire through the corrupt policies of his friends in office. Trust me, YOU would be a billionaire if you were given the same (now-illegal) government concessions he was given. Heck, Thaksin even admitted it in his address to his fellow telecoms after he had purchased (I mean won) his election and after blatantly evading the law. Thaksin himself stated that it was easy for him to make money when he started. The laws he got his friends to pass made it so that he only had to sell a few phones a day to make big profits, whereas after Thaksin took office he changed those laws to keep out his competition, and made it so they had to do hundreds of times the sales to make the same profit.
The original article by Khun Satisuda quoted some statistics that are clearly incorrect. This seemed like a "good heart/bad head" situation, reminding us once again that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
That all having been said, the situation of inequity as brought up by Khun Sanitsuda, overpopulation as listed by several commentors, political corruption, and abuse of the concept "democracy" are all faces of the same problem. Though they may be attacked one at a time, it will not be until all four are fixed that any one will be truly repaired. Thus we will slowly and gradually worm our way out of this mess, and no one thing such as massive change in tax structure will completely fix even a single one of those problems.
Which one is the worst? I don't know. But I do know that the solution to at least some of these problems will come from real democracy. And real democracy does not mean just counting votes. Those votes must come from an informed and educated public - something that Thaksin severly curtailed and I am glad to see is gradually being brought back on track. It does not even require the massive investment in vote-buying that has so marked past elections to get the people to decide they love or hate any leader. All you need to do is to follow Thaksin's policies (and those of the great Communist regimes of other countries) to limit what the populace sees, reads, and hears. If Thaksin wanted to, I am sure he could have convinced the uneducated rural poor that he could fly and heal warts at the same time.
Inequality? Find me a country that does not have it. That does not mean that inequality is good, it just means that it will probably never be eliminated -- not even simple financial inequality.
Just look at the overall picture: Unless financial inequality is absolutely and totally eradicated, then there will always be poor people. This is because "poor" is a relative term. (The poorest person today has things that even the ultra rich did not have 200 years ago.) "Poor" means there are others that have more, and that will always be the case. The only way we could eliminate the poor would be to also eliminate the rich - something that even Thaksin clearly never envisioned. And I expect, neither is Khun Sanitsuda thinking about that now.
Statements like in post #1 that claim the VAT taxes rich and poor equally are simply naive. It is true that sales taxes charge an equal rate per purchase to the rich and poor, but they actually cost the rich more baht per year since the rich make more purchases. It is generally accepted that the VAT costs the rich a lower percentage of their total wealth each year, but the fact is that the poor pay less total VAT than the rich. Is that equal? Not at all. Is that fair? You decide.
Statements like "Thaksin is a self-made billionaire" are equally naive. Thaksin was made a billionaire through the corrupt policies of his friends in office. Trust me, YOU would be a billionaire if you were given the same (now-illegal) government concessions he was given. Heck, Thaksin even admitted it in his address to his fellow telecoms after he had purchased (I mean won) his election and after blatantly evading the law. Thaksin himself stated that it was easy for him to make money when he started. The laws he got his friends to pass made it so that he only had to sell a few phones a day to make big profits, whereas after Thaksin took office he changed those laws to keep out his competition, and made it so they had to do hundreds of times the sales to make the same profit.
The original article by Khun Satisuda quoted some statistics that are clearly incorrect. This seemed like a "good heart/bad head" situation, reminding us once again that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
That all having been said, the situation of inequity as brought up by Khun Sanitsuda, overpopulation as listed by several commentors, political corruption, and abuse of the concept "democracy" are all faces of the same problem. Though they may be attacked one at a time, it will not be until all four are fixed that any one will be truly repaired. Thus we will slowly and gradually worm our way out of this mess, and no one thing such as massive change in tax structure will completely fix even a single one of those problems.
Which one is the worst? I don't know. But I do know that the solution to at least some of these problems will come from real democracy. And real democracy does not mean just counting votes. Those votes must come from an informed and educated public - something that Thaksin severly curtailed and I am glad to see is gradually being brought back on track. It does not even require the massive investment in vote-buying that has so marked past elections to get the people to decide they love or hate any leader. All you need to do is to follow Thaksin's policies (and those of the great Communist regimes of other countries) to limit what the populace sees, reads, and hears. If Thaksin wanted to, I am sure he could have convinced the uneducated rural poor that he could fly and heal warts at the same time.
Inequality? Find me a country that does not have it. That does not mean that inequality is good, it just means that it will probably never be eliminated -- not even simple financial inequality.
Just look at the overall picture: Unless financial inequality is absolutely and totally eradicated, then there will always be poor people. This is because "poor" is a relative term. (The poorest person today has things that even the ultra rich did not have 200 years ago.) "Poor" means there are others that have more, and that will always be the case. The only way we could eliminate the poor would be to also eliminate the rich - something that even Thaksin clearly never envisioned. And I expect, neither is Khun Sanitsuda thinking about that now.
Comment 70
Christensen date : 28/12/2009 time : 04:08
date : 28/12/2009 time : 04:08
Taksin got rid of chao Po guys that was good. Agriculture politics could then be practiced for the first time. Then the army found it ok to take over from this new development.
Comment 71
Butch date : 30/12/2009 time : 08:43
date : 30/12/2009 time : 08:43
If Taksin were to return to politics then Thailand would lose all credibility
in the world and Thailand's economy would suffer greatly.Hats off to the Brain Washed Red Shirts for what they are doing is the same as the TRT Thaksin Loves Thaksin and has his own swell headed agenda and dosen't give a damn about the Thai people.Please Wake up Thaksin is not good for this country he is only tearing it apart.
in the world and Thailand's economy would suffer greatly.Hats off to the Brain Washed Red Shirts for what they are doing is the same as the TRT Thaksin Loves Thaksin and has his own swell headed agenda and dosen't give a damn about the Thai people.Please Wake up Thaksin is not good for this country he is only tearing it apart.
Comment 72
Jerry date : 31/12/2009 time : 01:44
date : 31/12/2009 time : 01:44
Thaksin made his money from the sale of a company that he started and owned, so what if he was at the right place at the right time. People need to understand, that if you dont earn your money, then they wont want to succeed, if you hand people entitlements, then they will always expect more, and more. Thaksin got rid of the corruption, got rid of the drugs, and was trying to get zero percent interest loans so people in the country could help themselves. All of these statistics are self serving for people that want a handout or want power so they can talk about how poor the lower 30 or whatever percent are, instead of doing something about it, like making competition so the investments will stay in the country of origin. Thaksin did good, is a good person and should come back and make Thailand competitive.
Comment 73
Gary date : 31/12/2009 time : 03:53
date : 31/12/2009 time : 03:53
Especially on the smaller islands of Southern Thailand this land situation and gross inequity is equally ridiculous (if not worse). Although not generally being used for agriculture, even the smallest islands have very high value for the tourism industry. As the established resorts of Samui, Phuket etc become increasing developed and infrastructure within Thailand makes it easier for people to get around, tourists are exploring further and further. So we're now in the situation where relatively uneducated fishing communities are getting exploited. There's no way that such people have the ability to compete against external investment, and although in the short term they might be happy to make a quick buck selling their land for what to perceive to be a great deal, the long term ramifications are going top be catastrophic. Once the land is gone, it's gone. We'll end in the situation where a family who has lived in the same place for generations is priced out of living in their own home, with neither the wealth nor education to do anything about it. Not a pretty picture.
The question is this:
What does the Thai government do to regulate land purchases in provincial Thailand?
From what I've seen, everything is done at very local level, and I'd be willing to bet there are no controls in place.
What will stop a bad situation becoming significantly worse?
The question is this:
What does the Thai government do to regulate land purchases in provincial Thailand?
From what I've seen, everything is done at very local level, and I'd be willing to bet there are no controls in place.
What will stop a bad situation becoming significantly worse?
Comment 74
Jerry date : 03/01/2010 time : 16:48
date : 03/01/2010 time : 16:48
People need to realize that money has to come from somewhere, it has value, there needs to be something produced to make it have value, there are countries in the world that are still struggling with this concept. Thaksin is a leader that understands this concept and to have him arrested was not in the best interest of the country of Thailand. If this country is to grow and become competitive, then there needs to be a more free market that can thrive and grow, sell abroad and use it natural resources (people and ideas) to become unique.
Comment 75
tynllidiart date : 07/01/2010 time : 15:26
date : 07/01/2010 time : 15:26
I'm glad this country is becoming polarised, since it will mean that Thaksin and his mafia clan can now NEVER claim that they own it all. You redshirts always say there is no evidence he was corrupt. You can afford to lie because you know Thaksin buys silence by murdering people. Then you say that Prem has corrupted the justice system. You are right. Perhaps, though, it was because he was aware that Thaksin, the corrupt policeman, had bought the justice system, lock, stock and two smoking barrels. There might be some people stupid enough to believe the lies of the Thaksin apologists, but this one will never always know he is a murderous greedy scumbag.
Comment 77
alan date : 18/01/2010 time : 06:21
date : 18/01/2010 time : 06:21
From general consensus it would seem that all/most politicians are corrupt, if so why would a majority of Thai people vote for Mr. T. I was told by 2 Thai men that the only difference was ..he wasn't from Bangkok, one from Chiangmai, the other from Isaan. An interesting reason to choose.
Comment 78
Andrew Johnson date : 19/01/2010 time : 15:23
date : 19/01/2010 time : 15:23
Lovely column, as always! I was wondering if anyone had the link to A. Nidthi's Thai-language article in Matichon. I've been searching about on Matichon but am stymied by their search engine.
Comment 79
unknown date : 21/01/2010 time : 10:07
date : 21/01/2010 time : 10:07
sorry for asking, but why do you think these people could be so easily manipulated? Regardless of either yellow or red, they don't seem to care how much damage they caused to the country.
We need better education, good education so that everyone could become smart enough not to fall into the games of politicians. That way, perhaps it won't be so easy to be used.
We need better education, good education so that everyone could become smart enough not to fall into the games of politicians. That way, perhaps it won't be so easy to be used.
It's not just damage to the country. Wake up! Change has been forced upon you and traditionalists, in control, want none of it. Giving up power and privilege is painful to the unjust and has always been so.
In my opinion Thaksin was a crook, killer and dictator, but even then he was hardly different than the people who have been running things for centuries here. That China has now taken over Thailand ethnically and political/culturally is another real damage that democrats will not admit to.
In my opinion Thaksin was a crook, killer and dictator, but even then he was hardly different than the people who have been running things for centuries here. That China has now taken over Thailand ethnically and political/culturally is another real damage that democrats will not admit to.
Comment 81
unknown date : 22/01/2010 time : 05:47
date : 22/01/2010 time : 05:47
@Frank G Anderson,
Change? what kind of change are you talking about? how can a positive change occur without proper education? you point out a very good point with the Chinese influence on Thailand, however, this is just an example of indirect imperialistic influence. Chinese are taking their values and giving it to Thailand which is obvious for the innocent Panda being a perfect example.
But remember that this is Thailand, this is NOT CHINA. Although this change as you refer to, but I do not agree with a country with its own cultures and history, be influenced or changed by political greed.
What you see here could be change, but it'll be ignorant to say that this is just the way it is. If this is what change is suppose to be, then the diseases thats being plaguing the country would make matters worse for the future.
In order for change to take place, is not only within the hands of politicians, but people also need to be prepared for the change. Not only that, they need to be aware of what is happening within their own country. THat is why there is history, the whole notion of education with a look into humanity's troubled past.
Without education, the people especially the poor cannot be aware of the games the politicians play, you will be easily manipulated for only the sake of money.
That is why they say, educated people are dangerous....so forget education, if we need to control the country that has mostly the farmers and poor people, just use money, and give to them.
Maybe to some politicians, this is their strategy for change that can benefit them. But do you think this kind of change is proper? It only creates more greed, it only creates more chaos, only creates more hatred among divided people of values.
For myself, Thailand is going through change, and that is the change of struggle against values. We are struggling between right or wrong, the foundations of Thai Buddhism, the way of life it taught us since the eary times, versus the temptation of modernistic acquirements or globalized influence. THese two are in conflict with each other, that is why it becomes unaware for especially the poor and uneducated people to notice. This is all the software stuff...in the minds.
Change? what kind of change are you talking about? how can a positive change occur without proper education? you point out a very good point with the Chinese influence on Thailand, however, this is just an example of indirect imperialistic influence. Chinese are taking their values and giving it to Thailand which is obvious for the innocent Panda being a perfect example.
But remember that this is Thailand, this is NOT CHINA. Although this change as you refer to, but I do not agree with a country with its own cultures and history, be influenced or changed by political greed.
What you see here could be change, but it'll be ignorant to say that this is just the way it is. If this is what change is suppose to be, then the diseases thats being plaguing the country would make matters worse for the future.
In order for change to take place, is not only within the hands of politicians, but people also need to be prepared for the change. Not only that, they need to be aware of what is happening within their own country. THat is why there is history, the whole notion of education with a look into humanity's troubled past.
Without education, the people especially the poor cannot be aware of the games the politicians play, you will be easily manipulated for only the sake of money.
That is why they say, educated people are dangerous....so forget education, if we need to control the country that has mostly the farmers and poor people, just use money, and give to them.
Maybe to some politicians, this is their strategy for change that can benefit them. But do you think this kind of change is proper? It only creates more greed, it only creates more chaos, only creates more hatred among divided people of values.
For myself, Thailand is going through change, and that is the change of struggle against values. We are struggling between right or wrong, the foundations of Thai Buddhism, the way of life it taught us since the eary times, versus the temptation of modernistic acquirements or globalized influence. THese two are in conflict with each other, that is why it becomes unaware for especially the poor and uneducated people to notice. This is all the software stuff...in the minds.
Comment 82
Rowan date : 22/01/2010 time : 13:36
date : 22/01/2010 time : 13:36
I am a Thaksin fan and thought he did a good job for Thailand and Thai people. unfortunately, Thailand still has no true democracy and the corruption is out of control. Thaksin was not perfect but he was and still is the best thing for Thailand.
As for the land stats in comment #3, i agree. My friend owns 33 rai, but is not in the 10 percent or 90 percent.
As for the land stats in comment #3, i agree. My friend owns 33 rai, but is not in the 10 percent or 90 percent.
Comment 83
Rowan date : 22/01/2010 time : 13:42
date : 22/01/2010 time : 13:42
The people voted for Samak after Thaksin, He made a simple error, Somchai took over. Aphisit was not elected by the people.
Yes. In a true democracy, the elected officials have terms which are served out. The elected officials have a limit to the number of terms they can serve. This assures that the opposition will only have to endure a democratically elected party for certain amount of time, and then they can have another chance, reinvigorated, stronger, and purged of any candidates which may have been holding the party back. This process not only is self perpetuating, but very strong in promoting peace among opposing factions of common people, because it utilizes the peoples hope for a guaranteed, reasonable, possibility for change as a pacifier. Now, in Thailand, once there is a party in office the people in the streets feel that violence is their only hope for change since it seems there is no other way to get another chance. It is also the reason you keep hearing everyone shout CORRUPTION! incessantly. It really is irrelevant whether they are corrupt or not if what really matters is the vote of the people. Not to mention the fact that the determination of relative corruption in many cases is subjective, as well as the "nature of the beast" in politics. You can see that George Bush was corrupt to a certain degree, however, there was no need to fight about it because the opposition had hope that they could empower themselves and their message and trust the system and the popular vote to remove him, or in his case he could not run anyway because his term limit had been reached. However, the people of Thailand must know they have complete control over who who gets elected by way of a free and fair, scheduled national elections. The term "SNAP ELECTION" is almost comical and should be outlawed! Thailand has a long way to go to reach these basic requirements, and many others, for listing itself as a democracy. There are massive class struggles swept under the carpet every day which have been festering for hundreds of years. The privileged WILL protect their lifestyles even at the expense of democracy until it is too late. We know this from history. I hope it is not too late for Thailand.
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
Comment 85
J C Wilcox date : 26/01/2010 time : 13:55
date : 26/01/2010 time : 13:55
Khun Sanitsuda, with the greatest respect has very left wing views. It is these views that have been policy in the UK for some time. In the UK socialist policy has brought the country to its knees. Do gooders with their protectionist policies achieve nothing but weakness and dependency.As Abraham Lincoln so wisely said, "You cannot permanently help a man by doing for him what he could and should do for himself".
People are where they are because of who they are. Poverty and ignorance breeds poverty and ignorance. Opportunity exists everywhere for those who are capable of seeing it and acting on it. It is called natural selection and that at the end of the day prevails. No social engineering will change this fact of nature.
People are where they are because of who they are. Poverty and ignorance breeds poverty and ignorance. Opportunity exists everywhere for those who are capable of seeing it and acting on it. It is called natural selection and that at the end of the day prevails. No social engineering will change this fact of nature.
Comment 88
frits date : 31/01/2010 time : 15:31
date : 31/01/2010 time : 15:31
I lived in Thailand for 3 years and loved everything about it, one exeption,YOUR POLITICS.Taksin is a criminal feeding unrest agros your borders.Even England does not like him anymore. Get rid of him permanently and your problems are solved
Comment 89
frits date : 31/01/2010 time : 15:32
date : 31/01/2010 time : 15:32
I lived in Thailand for 3 years and loved everything about it, one exeption,YOUR POLITICS.Taksin is a criminal feeding unrest agros your borders.Even England does not like him anymore. Get rid of him permanently and your problems are solved
Comment 90
David Rand date : 03/02/2010 time : 03:35
date : 03/02/2010 time : 03:35
Great article to point out the problems in Thailand. These struggles have been fought before but one "Wild card" that has held the poor back is the endless "Coup" mentality. Just as the poor vote in a potential game changing government, it seems that the elite respond by a Coup.
Democracy and "Coup" can not co-exist. Respect the vote of the people. Rich or poor, one person, one vot. This is the great equalizer that allows society to grow/improve over time.
Democracy and "Coup" can not co-exist. Respect the vote of the people. Rich or poor, one person, one vot. This is the great equalizer that allows society to grow/improve over time.
Comment 91
David Rand date : 03/02/2010 time : 03:50
date : 03/02/2010 time : 03:50
Thaksin Era,
I hear these people say that disproportionate taxation is not "The way" to real change. Well, please show me one Industrial nation that does not have a disproportional tax system? Please, show me. There needs to be downward distribution of wealth in order to help build a nation.
Is a nation the top 5% or the bottom 50%?
Thailand is one of the most disproportionally poor nations in the world. The poor are not looking to be rich, they are simply looking for improved quality of life.
Case in Point - Come to America during this recession. Rich are OK, but let me tell you, the top 50% are not getting richer when the bottom 50% are struggling. The rich grow when the poor grow. When the middle class and poor stop spending, the economy comes to a halt. The economy does not grow off of the rich, it grows off of the bottom 50% of the nation's backs.
So prop them up...and Thailand will grow both in culture and wealth.
I hear these people say that disproportionate taxation is not "The way" to real change. Well, please show me one Industrial nation that does not have a disproportional tax system? Please, show me. There needs to be downward distribution of wealth in order to help build a nation.
Is a nation the top 5% or the bottom 50%?
Thailand is one of the most disproportionally poor nations in the world. The poor are not looking to be rich, they are simply looking for improved quality of life.
Case in Point - Come to America during this recession. Rich are OK, but let me tell you, the top 50% are not getting richer when the bottom 50% are struggling. The rich grow when the poor grow. When the middle class and poor stop spending, the economy comes to a halt. The economy does not grow off of the rich, it grows off of the bottom 50% of the nation's backs.
So prop them up...and Thailand will grow both in culture and wealth.
Comment 92
J C Wilcox date : 04/02/2010 time : 19:25
date : 04/02/2010 time : 19:25
Before the people of a country can benefit from democracy a democracy must be established.
The attitude of this article and of so many people in Thailand seem to assume that Thailand is a democracy.
Thailand is not a democracy and before it may call itself a democracy all people must understand the essential principles of a democracy.
Each person of voting age has the right to vote freely.
The judiciary must be independent of government, free of any other influence or vested interest and administer the law equally to all.
The military must be under the direct control of the elected government. A military coup will thereby not be possible.
A clear code of behaviour must be established for all those within the political system such as MPs who must make full disclosure of their commercial interests.
Whilst it is rather more involved, these principles must be in place before a democracy can even be born.
In Thailand they are not and they are not because few people even understand democracy beyond one person one vote.
Having read articles particularly one by a professor of political sciences who declared that Thai democracy was being hijacked, spoken with Thais, watched Thai news and read BP, it is clear that there is little understanding of democracy.
It is for the people of a country to change a regime whatever it may be. Democracy cannot be imposed by any law, it has to be brought about by pressure from the people. However, this cannot happen if the people do not know what democracy is.
The only way to bring about long term change in Thailand has suggested in this article by Khun Sanitsuda is to teach Democracy especially in schools and on TV so that all age groups may understand. The best method to get the message over on TV is to incorporate it into one of the Thai soaps.
The attitude of this article and of so many people in Thailand seem to assume that Thailand is a democracy.
Thailand is not a democracy and before it may call itself a democracy all people must understand the essential principles of a democracy.
Each person of voting age has the right to vote freely.
The judiciary must be independent of government, free of any other influence or vested interest and administer the law equally to all.
The military must be under the direct control of the elected government. A military coup will thereby not be possible.
A clear code of behaviour must be established for all those within the political system such as MPs who must make full disclosure of their commercial interests.
Whilst it is rather more involved, these principles must be in place before a democracy can even be born.
In Thailand they are not and they are not because few people even understand democracy beyond one person one vote.
Having read articles particularly one by a professor of political sciences who declared that Thai democracy was being hijacked, spoken with Thais, watched Thai news and read BP, it is clear that there is little understanding of democracy.
It is for the people of a country to change a regime whatever it may be. Democracy cannot be imposed by any law, it has to be brought about by pressure from the people. However, this cannot happen if the people do not know what democracy is.
The only way to bring about long term change in Thailand has suggested in this article by Khun Sanitsuda is to teach Democracy especially in schools and on TV so that all age groups may understand. The best method to get the message over on TV is to incorporate it into one of the Thai soaps.
Comment 93
Bill W date : 05/02/2010 time : 04:21
date : 05/02/2010 time : 04:21
The bottom lin is that the sinssterly rich keep the majority oppressed through the mind numbing, rote memorization educational system so they can cheat, steal and lie in the name of loyalty and what's best for the country. It's disgusting!
Comment 94
William date : 07/02/2010 time : 00:17
date : 07/02/2010 time : 00:17
"Is there anyway out of this madness?"
It is necessary to look at its causes. Where Abhisit was coming from? The Yellow Shirt!
Where the Abhisit government was coming from? The 2006 military coup!
The Democrats have less seats from the last "pseudo-election" compared to Pua Thai.
Disinformation and misinformation are his strong suits. He said Democrats will get 240 seats at the next election, ABAC poll said less than 30% approved Abhisit and more than 85% get tired of his policy based on disinformation and misinformation.
He lead a failed state, that his government spent time to assure the international community that Thailand will not have the coup, but no one trust this kind of promises.
Abhisit led a minority government, by the numer of Democrats at the parliament.
He praticed politics of "juggling" more burning bottles than he can handle it. He will fall flat on his face.
The depletion of Thai resources to serve a failed state by Abhisit will bring Thailand deeper into division, because those who cannot get those resources "oficially and legally" will fall into desperation, and desperate people can do a lot of bad things.
Now the Thai "top brass"are happy, because Abhisit waste Thai weath and national wealth on them. There are thos e who did not get those wealth.
If Abhisit is sure he will get 240 seats, call the election now, to prove how big a "stateman"he is.
William
It is necessary to look at its causes. Where Abhisit was coming from? The Yellow Shirt!
Where the Abhisit government was coming from? The 2006 military coup!
The Democrats have less seats from the last "pseudo-election" compared to Pua Thai.
Disinformation and misinformation are his strong suits. He said Democrats will get 240 seats at the next election, ABAC poll said less than 30% approved Abhisit and more than 85% get tired of his policy based on disinformation and misinformation.
He lead a failed state, that his government spent time to assure the international community that Thailand will not have the coup, but no one trust this kind of promises.
Abhisit led a minority government, by the numer of Democrats at the parliament.
He praticed politics of "juggling" more burning bottles than he can handle it. He will fall flat on his face.
The depletion of Thai resources to serve a failed state by Abhisit will bring Thailand deeper into division, because those who cannot get those resources "oficially and legally" will fall into desperation, and desperate people can do a lot of bad things.
Now the Thai "top brass"are happy, because Abhisit waste Thai weath and national wealth on them. There are thos e who did not get those wealth.
If Abhisit is sure he will get 240 seats, call the election now, to prove how big a "stateman"he is.
William
Comment 95
JON JUNHAMAN date : 14/04/2010 time : 04:42
date : 14/04/2010 time : 04:42
The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them.
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
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- Name: Sanitsuda
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- Entry: 107
region in terms of inequity statistics
since Asian political leaders have
personal interest first and public
interest later. Economic policies are
biased towards the powerful while the
have-nots are taxed equally like the
value-added tax. We need more of the
likes of Sanituda in exposing all the
inequities in our society nowadays...
where the poor gets poorer everyday
while the rich gets richer.