Bangkok Post » Post Blogs
Friday, May 07, 2010
Hate speech, free speech, and lese majeste law
Throughout the current political crisis the mainstream mass media has been under fire for playing along with state demonisation of the red shirts, which fans up hatred instead of fostering understanding for peace moves.
Indeed, the media must seriously rethink its role in times of conflict. But in a complex political situation, with many political actors and factors at play, isn't it simplistic to single out the mass media for blame?
True, the mainstream print and electronic media could have done much better to give the big picture of the problem through analyses and investigative reports, instead of reporting only the surface of daily phenomena and getting lost in sensationalism.
True, the mass media have largely lost touch with the rapid social and political changes as well as the needs of people on the streets.
The readers expect journalists to know what is going on, to offer a balanced view and to predict the possible turn of events. But mostly we cannot because we know only fragments of the whole picture. Also, the newsrooms are not free from the political divide. It is not unusual that in the same newspaper some writers are "red" and others are pro-government, making the general readers confused as to what the "truth" really is.
Which is better? The readers looking for truth and listening to both sides of the story in the same paper? Or each opposing side consuming only the media of their political leanings and unquestioningly accepting everything the movement's leaders say as the truth?
Have you ever listened to these so-called "alternative" political media's routine rhetoric of demonisation to incite hatred, public mayhem and violence?
"What has happened that makes us hate one another so intensely just because of different political views?" You must have heard this question countless times.
Who should we blame this on? The mainstream media? The readily available mass communications technologies - from satellite and cable TV to community radios and the borderless internet - which have been abused as political propaganda tools? The lack of regulations governing hate speech? Our human weakness to selectively listen to only what agrees with our beliefs? If anything, the most lethal is our social immaturity - the lack of tolerance and the tendency to react violently to perceived threats.
This is where the need to balance public reverence for the monarchy and the freedom of expression comes in.
Apart from being the mouthpiece of Thaksin Shinawatra and their gangster-style rally, one of the reasons the reds' social injustice message got lost with many Thais is their attacks on the royal institution. The anti-reds' anger is not only focused on the many accusations, but also on how some red speakers and publications spiced their allegations with insult, ridicule and vulgarity.
When hearsay, half-truths and lies are used to demonise, arouse hatred and violate what others hold as sacred, this practice cannot be excused as free speech. It is hate speech.
Amid our deeply divisive politics, any form of hate speech should not be tolerated. Nor the use of royalism as a political tool to destroy rivals and the violent reactions to perceived violations.
In our internet age, however, the mass media is no longer limited to organisations. Every person is now the medium when sharing information online and a potential hate-monger when he or she forwards hate-mail or encourages a witch-hunt, which is now rife in social media networks.
Since PM Abhisit Vejjajiva's peace road map includes the protection of the monarchy and media sensibility, it is wise to recognise that in a fragmented society governed by different loyalties, hate speech is an assault on peace, and the present form of lese majeste laws prevents rational discussion on the royal institution, allowing easy abuse while pushing dissent underground.
Hate speech in all forms and media channels must not be allowed. The rules for rational discussion on the royal institution must be drawn, to strike a balance between respect for cultural sensitivity, public sensibility and freedom of expression. This is a crucial issue which must not be dodged if we aim for peace and long-term protection of the revered institution.
Read comment
Comment 2
Johan Nachmanson 
date : 07/05/2010 time : 19:12
date : 07/05/2010 time : 19:12
Free Press - Thailand is considered to be one of 10 worst countries in the world. Sure the media can be blamed every time the Red skirts were named,the media associated them with Thaksin. No report that I read talked about the conditions of the poor people. In Isan for example: Number of hospitals, hospital beds, nurses, doctors, dentists, universities, schools, teachers are far below per capita, than in BKK. Drinking water, infrastructure etc. too.Look at your own text above - apart from being the mouthpiece of Thaksin and their gansgsterstyle rally. Can't the Red rally against their conditions without being called gangsters? Your text is not much better than Joseph Goebles Nazi way of associating the Reds with Thaksin. From what I can see you who write like the media, your letters ar published. Letters from those who write like me are censured. Tourists from the Nordic countries spend $1.4 billion in Thailand. We should bojcott Thailand until you stop calling people from Isan buffalos. I think it's time for you in Thailand to reform all institutions even those that are called revered. In the Kingdom of Sweden everyone knows what the King can do and what he does do. Is this the same in Thailand? Everyone that holds an office that can influence politics and the military should be scrutinized publically. That is todays modern democratic society. Nobody should be above the law. Well,I don't think your King is above the law, from what I understand he is a very fine person and doing a great job. How about averyone else in the Royal family? I honestly believe that the Royal Family may even prefer that the situation is cleared up, then noone has a reason to attack the monarchy Johan the Swede
You madam, are not telling the truth. The Red Shirts have never done any of the things you accuse them of.
Why do you pretent to be a modest voice, while at the same time conducting a witch hunt against innocent people. Shame on you.
Why do you pretent to be a modest voice, while at the same time conducting a witch hunt against innocent people. Shame on you.
Comment 4
AC Robertson date : 08/05/2010 time : 01:16
date : 08/05/2010 time : 01:16
When you stop reporting the NEWS; the events that have transpired and the history of the people involved. And start inserting your and/or your editor’s personnel feelings. You no longer deserve to be called a REPORTER....
You have proven that you are intelligent enough to know what the NEWS is. Now, you have to ignore the vocal minority, that do not truly represent the people involved. And present the information without disrespecting the Royals, the Thai Kingdom, or the lese majeste laws.
IMO - If you can not separate your personnel feelings from your reporting. Maybe you need to look for employment elsewhere or just admit to your readers that you are only reporting BIASED news. Like the BBC has done and almost all of the US media.
You have proven that you are intelligent enough to know what the NEWS is. Now, you have to ignore the vocal minority, that do not truly represent the people involved. And present the information without disrespecting the Royals, the Thai Kingdom, or the lese majeste laws.
IMO - If you can not separate your personnel feelings from your reporting. Maybe you need to look for employment elsewhere or just admit to your readers that you are only reporting BIASED news. Like the BBC has done and almost all of the US media.
Comment 5
cha date : 08/05/2010 time : 01:42
date : 08/05/2010 time : 01:42
Very hard to accept this piece of literary crap when penned by an ultra PRO-YELLOW writer that uses the term "Gangster style rally" to describe good folks with views different from her own, Hiso-elitist position. She is everything she writes in opposition to.
Comment 6
pedang date : 08/05/2010 time : 02:16
date : 08/05/2010 time : 02:16
It's OK to have many things to hear and see but they must be revealed with truth and correct informatio. Even an advertisement of a product must follow the regulations from authorities. If something revealed without facts, the media responsible must be punished. Giving false and bias view points again and again is worse than giving poison.
To learn the facts English/Chinese langauge, I prefer to read CNN News, BBC News, ifeng (HongKong), Channel News Asia and Straits Times.
When Mr Nirmal of Straits Times making report of the facts of Thailand polity, Mr/Ms X would fire him in his blog! Had you known Mr Nirmal is simply do his duty. He was born in India !
Why Mr/Ms X is so particular of Singapore? Why hate Singapore media?
When Mr Nirmal of Straits Times making report of the facts of Thailand polity, Mr/Ms X would fire him in his blog! Had you known Mr Nirmal is simply do his duty. He was born in India !
Why Mr/Ms X is so particular of Singapore? Why hate Singapore media?
Comment 8
Indeed date : 08/05/2010 time : 05:41
date : 08/05/2010 time : 05:41
"Hate speech" is a vague term and making laws against it will only be abused for political gain just as the lese majeste laws are abused.
Maybe if the mainstream media wasn't so pro-government and acted as the government's mouthpiece, there would be less a sense of urgency on the side of the red shirts. The problem is the mainstream media who have worked to push the opposition into a corner.
Maybe if the mainstream media wasn't so pro-government and acted as the government's mouthpiece, there would be less a sense of urgency on the side of the red shirts. The problem is the mainstream media who have worked to push the opposition into a corner.
Comment 9
must hide date : 08/05/2010 time : 05:44
date : 08/05/2010 time : 05:44
Seems to me, an outsider, that when part of the government is off limits for criticism then there really is no free speech.
Again, everything starts with the Rules of Law, everybody knows where are the limits to our right to free speech, or what can or can't be said in public.
Those who knowingly break the law must be prosecuted PERIOD.
As far as, the news media is concerned, they report, what happened, when & where it happened. Other than that, they report and we, the people, decide PERIOD.
Editorial & analysis is where things get cooked, twisted & turned, or spun. I suppose that the news media outlet that give fair & balanced news will attract the most viewers, versus ones that are predictably one-sided.
No one media outlet is perfect, therefore, viewers must exercise caution and discernment, as well as, receiving news from multiple sources, pretty basic stuffs.
I am more concerned about the most recent drive-by shooting at Silom where people were shot at while exercising their right to free speech, killing one policeman and injured many more.
Words don't kill but bullets and M-79s do kill! Again everything ends with the Rules of Law, and without it, everything else remains just academic, as illustrated by the latest deadly drive-by shooting at Silom.
Will you dare to say anything in public, even though it's legal, but can get you killed? That's where we at, sadly though.
I can't stress enough about maintaining the Rules of Law, and without it, no freedom of any kind is possible, including the freedom to live without fear of getting hit by one of those M-79s.
Those who knowingly break the law must be prosecuted PERIOD.
As far as, the news media is concerned, they report, what happened, when & where it happened. Other than that, they report and we, the people, decide PERIOD.
Editorial & analysis is where things get cooked, twisted & turned, or spun. I suppose that the news media outlet that give fair & balanced news will attract the most viewers, versus ones that are predictably one-sided.
No one media outlet is perfect, therefore, viewers must exercise caution and discernment, as well as, receiving news from multiple sources, pretty basic stuffs.
I am more concerned about the most recent drive-by shooting at Silom where people were shot at while exercising their right to free speech, killing one policeman and injured many more.
Words don't kill but bullets and M-79s do kill! Again everything ends with the Rules of Law, and without it, everything else remains just academic, as illustrated by the latest deadly drive-by shooting at Silom.
Will you dare to say anything in public, even though it's legal, but can get you killed? That's where we at, sadly though.
I can't stress enough about maintaining the Rules of Law, and without it, no freedom of any kind is possible, including the freedom to live without fear of getting hit by one of those M-79s.
Comment 11
Brian date : 08/05/2010 time : 08:22
date : 08/05/2010 time : 08:22
Lèse majesté is the crime of violating majesty, an offense against the dignity of a reigning sovereign or against a STATE.
The 2007 Constitution of Thailand, and all 17 versions since 1932, contain the clause, "The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action." Thai Criminal Code elaborates in Article 112: "Whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, Queen, the Heir-apparent or the Regent, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to 15 years." Missing from the Code, however, is a definition of what actions constitute "defamation" or "insult"
The laws were toughened under the Premier Tanin Kraivixien, such that criticism of any member of the royal family, the royal development projects, the royal institution, the Chakri Dynasty, or any previous Thai King was also banned.Bhumibol himself stated that he was not above criticism in his 2005 birthday speech. "Actually, I must also be criticised. I am not afraid if the criticism concerns what I do wrong, because then I know. Because if you say the king cannot be criticized, it means that the king is not human", he said. "If the king can do no wrong, it is akin to looking down upon him because the king is not being treated as a human being. But the king can do wrong.
I think most people agree the present king should be protected but there are other laws in place to protect others such as the dead. The law is too vague and the king should be the only person allowed to file the charge (or a lawyer acting DIRECTLY for him).
The interesting point here is that lese majeste can also be used by the STATE!
The 2007 Constitution of Thailand, and all 17 versions since 1932, contain the clause, "The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action." Thai Criminal Code elaborates in Article 112: "Whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, Queen, the Heir-apparent or the Regent, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to 15 years." Missing from the Code, however, is a definition of what actions constitute "defamation" or "insult"
The laws were toughened under the Premier Tanin Kraivixien, such that criticism of any member of the royal family, the royal development projects, the royal institution, the Chakri Dynasty, or any previous Thai King was also banned.Bhumibol himself stated that he was not above criticism in his 2005 birthday speech. "Actually, I must also be criticised. I am not afraid if the criticism concerns what I do wrong, because then I know. Because if you say the king cannot be criticized, it means that the king is not human", he said. "If the king can do no wrong, it is akin to looking down upon him because the king is not being treated as a human being. But the king can do wrong.
I think most people agree the present king should be protected but there are other laws in place to protect others such as the dead. The law is too vague and the king should be the only person allowed to file the charge (or a lawyer acting DIRECTLY for him).
The interesting point here is that lese majeste can also be used by the STATE!
Comment 12
dave date : 08/05/2010 time : 12:54
date : 08/05/2010 time : 12:54
This article is very one-sided. Your text is an example of what you call "hate speech". You may disagree and dislike the Reds but you have no right to use the so-called mainstream media such as the Bangkok Post to put forth your propaganda against the Reds. It is ironic, isn't it? You preach about something you say you are against at but you actually did it in this article. Now, look who's talking!
I am not a fan of the Reds nor I support their cause. But I respect them for what they believe in. And I despise you for bashing them using a respected newspaper.
Perhaps you should think twice on preaching about freedom of speech. Your version of "freedom" in Thailand is one-sided. For a pro-government and pro-monarchy person like you, then you have freedom. If you are in the opposition, you certainly are not free. FYI, Thailand is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of practice of free press.
Get your points clear, honest and straightforward. That's the only way for a media person like you to gain credibility.
I am not a fan of the Reds nor I support their cause. But I respect them for what they believe in. And I despise you for bashing them using a respected newspaper.
Perhaps you should think twice on preaching about freedom of speech. Your version of "freedom" in Thailand is one-sided. For a pro-government and pro-monarchy person like you, then you have freedom. If you are in the opposition, you certainly are not free. FYI, Thailand is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of practice of free press.
Get your points clear, honest and straightforward. That's the only way for a media person like you to gain credibility.
Comment 13
Terence Brian date : 08/05/2010 time : 13:19
An article about freedom of speech in Thailand and not one word about the closure, by the Abhisit government, of radio and TV outlets reporting politics pro Red Shirt !
If the writer cannot see that basic lack of objectivity he/she would be better off working in some other profession.
Comment 14
Chris date : 08/05/2010 time : 14:01
date : 08/05/2010 time : 14:01
I think there are so many factors [that only Thais can truly appreciate]that have to be taken in to consideration regards what many westerners take for granted.For example in criticising the government or the royal palace.
I am not trying to make excuses for the actions and maybe non actions of certain bodies but this is no quick fix.
There are still today in this hitech world huge numbers of elderly Thais who genuinely believe that the king is not a mere mortal but a
demi god,so how does one start?
Anyone can point fingers but who has the
real answers?
As for Thaksin and the red shirt marriage, I think the red shirts have now divorced Thaksin,they seem to have their own agenda now.
Peace to Thailand.
I am not trying to make excuses for the actions and maybe non actions of certain bodies but this is no quick fix.
There are still today in this hitech world huge numbers of elderly Thais who genuinely believe that the king is not a mere mortal but a
demi god,so how does one start?
Anyone can point fingers but who has the
real answers?
As for Thaksin and the red shirt marriage, I think the red shirts have now divorced Thaksin,they seem to have their own agenda now.
Peace to Thailand.
Comment 16
dissapointed date : 08/05/2010 time : 16:41
You almost got it right. You were so close. Just about to own your place in society as a true journalist when you let your personal political bias get in the way. So was this just some clever way of trying to do exactly what you are accussing others of resorting to? I am sorry, but you have no right to write such a piece as this, and should really feel you have let yourself down. Don't claim to be something, preach it to others and show your dissapointment to your fellow Thais and then deliver this. This kind of journalism is an insult to your readers. No wonder people feel "what do we have to do to be heard?".
If anything should banned, its people turning up to protests in Royal shirts. Politics and the Monarchy are not to be confused. The Royal Institution should be left out of all this, and that means the present Politians ceasing to try to link The Monarchy to Politics, just because they know they can jump to Lese Majeste to "Checkmate" their opponents. So can we stop loosing sight of the way??? If you don't have a good arguement, don't insult people with "whatever you got"!
Comment 17
DieDieChakri date : 09/05/2010 time : 00:44
date : 09/05/2010 time : 00:44
2 years for killing someone in Thailand Vs 15 years for criticising the Thai monarchy. Which sentence do you like?
Comment 18
harvey ball date : 09/05/2010 time : 02:20
date : 09/05/2010 time : 02:20
I read the Bangkok Post because it is English & I regrettably cannot read Thai. However its political coverage is biased and this particular article is a disgrace to journalism.
It refers to freedom of the press but abuses the responsibility that goes with such freedom. I hear many times about "rights" but not too much about "responsibilities"
It refers to les majeste which while conceived in a time that commonly ascribed to "the divine right " of kings is now being used as a sinister tool of corrupt governments and officials rather than to honour His Majesty.
More the pity that such a Great King has to be pulled down by the very law that was meant to protect him.
It ignores entirely the problems in Thailand and trivialises them by referring to gangsters etc.
Thailand is not a democracy (one vote one person & the majority rules). Thailand is not a free country (the people hide in fear from the corruption of the authorities). Thailand is not just (equal before the law simply does not apply). Thailand is not subject to the rule of law (the rich and corrupted control & act with impunity against their own fellow Thai).
Thailand is not progressive (good education, health & basic rights even water are denied to the poor North & North east relative to Bangkok). Thailand is not the land of smiles (the smiles hide the hopelessness of most Thais under an elitist ruled country). Thailand is not true (face shades truth every day for every person).
Thailand is a great country & rich with wonderful people BUT it does not know how to share.
The reds will miss the point as they are herded into beliefs and actions by continuingly unscurpulous power brokers. The Yellows have always missed the point as they try to hang on to power that a modern world will eventually strip them of. And so it goes for other colours of the corrupted Thai political process.
Let the Great Thai arise from this mire of deceit, lies, unfairness, contrived corruption & poverty and lead this great nation to freedom and justice. I wait for this person. A Ghandi, A Mandella, a Mao, a Jefferson or Washington or Lincoln, But the name will be Thawee or Peung or the like and I wait for their arrival.
What a pity a Great King has no real power, stripped by the same greedy men whose son's and daughters now defile him in their entrenched corruption and misuse of les majeste and his great name.
In the abscence of true Royal power let the Great Thai step forward and lead Thailand into the uplands, drenched with sunshine for all to enjoy and based on fairness, liberty, sharing, honesty and happiness for all.
I think I love Thailand more than most of these political monsters and I wish Thailand and all Thais happiness, prosperity, good luck & at this time clear thinking and action to give to themselves real power. Now is the time.
Thank you for reading.
Harvey
It refers to freedom of the press but abuses the responsibility that goes with such freedom. I hear many times about "rights" but not too much about "responsibilities"
It refers to les majeste which while conceived in a time that commonly ascribed to "the divine right " of kings is now being used as a sinister tool of corrupt governments and officials rather than to honour His Majesty.
More the pity that such a Great King has to be pulled down by the very law that was meant to protect him.
It ignores entirely the problems in Thailand and trivialises them by referring to gangsters etc.
Thailand is not a democracy (one vote one person & the majority rules). Thailand is not a free country (the people hide in fear from the corruption of the authorities). Thailand is not just (equal before the law simply does not apply). Thailand is not subject to the rule of law (the rich and corrupted control & act with impunity against their own fellow Thai).
Thailand is not progressive (good education, health & basic rights even water are denied to the poor North & North east relative to Bangkok). Thailand is not the land of smiles (the smiles hide the hopelessness of most Thais under an elitist ruled country). Thailand is not true (face shades truth every day for every person).
Thailand is a great country & rich with wonderful people BUT it does not know how to share.
The reds will miss the point as they are herded into beliefs and actions by continuingly unscurpulous power brokers. The Yellows have always missed the point as they try to hang on to power that a modern world will eventually strip them of. And so it goes for other colours of the corrupted Thai political process.
Let the Great Thai arise from this mire of deceit, lies, unfairness, contrived corruption & poverty and lead this great nation to freedom and justice. I wait for this person. A Ghandi, A Mandella, a Mao, a Jefferson or Washington or Lincoln, But the name will be Thawee or Peung or the like and I wait for their arrival.
What a pity a Great King has no real power, stripped by the same greedy men whose son's and daughters now defile him in their entrenched corruption and misuse of les majeste and his great name.
In the abscence of true Royal power let the Great Thai step forward and lead Thailand into the uplands, drenched with sunshine for all to enjoy and based on fairness, liberty, sharing, honesty and happiness for all.
I think I love Thailand more than most of these political monsters and I wish Thailand and all Thais happiness, prosperity, good luck & at this time clear thinking and action to give to themselves real power. Now is the time.
Thank you for reading.
Harvey
Comment 19
tigerman date : 09/05/2010 time : 04:51
date : 09/05/2010 time : 04:51
Everybody is a human and not above the law. Your king is not above the law and he is not God! As such, if you accept that many people adore the king, you must also accept that many people dont give a damn about the king. THis is the basis of democracy, If you forbid people to say a single critic against the king then its not a democracy its a dictatorship.
Comment 20
Ryan date : 09/05/2010 time : 06:12
date : 09/05/2010 time : 06:12
Really?
For all the pro-Red expatriate authors who claim that the red are more than just a mouthpiece for Thaksin, let's propose this: As a condition to the roadmap, the Red leadership have to stipulate that they support Thaksin's reintroduction to Thailand only AFTER he serves his jail time in Thailand. OR that he agrees (as he previously claimed he would) he will never again be allowed to participate in Thai politics. this is of course all a sham. The reds are longing for the "rob from the rich, give to the poor," policies of Thaksin that penalized capitalists (although not a dime of his own fortune - except to buy votes at the polls). If the Reds would transcend Thaksin, they would indeed have the moral high ground that they wrongly believe they have.
They could take a lesson from Martin Luther King, Jr. Blacks in America (and their white supporters) endured harsh treatment and even violence without responding in kind. The restraint earned them the respect of the majority, which passed the laws ending segregation and institutionalized racism. But the Reds flout law and order and safety; erecting barricades, training paramilitaries, bloodletting, and grenade throwing - actions that earn them no sympathy or respect from any but expatriates in Thailand who could not succeed in their own countries of origin.
For all the pro-Red expatriate authors who claim that the red are more than just a mouthpiece for Thaksin, let's propose this: As a condition to the roadmap, the Red leadership have to stipulate that they support Thaksin's reintroduction to Thailand only AFTER he serves his jail time in Thailand. OR that he agrees (as he previously claimed he would) he will never again be allowed to participate in Thai politics. this is of course all a sham. The reds are longing for the "rob from the rich, give to the poor," policies of Thaksin that penalized capitalists (although not a dime of his own fortune - except to buy votes at the polls). If the Reds would transcend Thaksin, they would indeed have the moral high ground that they wrongly believe they have.
They could take a lesson from Martin Luther King, Jr. Blacks in America (and their white supporters) endured harsh treatment and even violence without responding in kind. The restraint earned them the respect of the majority, which passed the laws ending segregation and institutionalized racism. But the Reds flout law and order and safety; erecting barricades, training paramilitaries, bloodletting, and grenade throwing - actions that earn them no sympathy or respect from any but expatriates in Thailand who could not succeed in their own countries of origin.
Comment 21
Sperwer date : 09/05/2010 time : 09:39
date : 09/05/2010 time : 09:39
Thanks for a balanced article. Much more pleasant to read than those aggresive pro-red comments. Gangster style rally may be a bit too strong, but then how to call people that attack unarmed non red demonstrators with grenades? The sad thing for the ordinary reds is that they are led by people that have no real intention to help them. These leaders and their gangs in the provinces are only interested in their own survival. For decades these people and their associates were voted in, only the names of their political parties changed. They had major positions in government before. But what did they achieve to improve the life of the people in the North and North East structurally? And now they are the self proclaimed champions of the poor and against injustice? With Chalerm Yubangrum being the new prime minister soon? Thailand and its poor deserve much better than having the maffia to solve their problems.
Comment 22
Michelle date : 09/05/2010 time : 10:01
date : 09/05/2010 time : 10:01
Thailand has no freedom of speech and, in fact is known as one of the worst violators of free speech in the world. Under Abhisit's government this has gotten worse (no democracy shuts down access to websites, TV stations and other media that doesn't agree with what the government says).
I'm a writer and, as such, have decided to leave Thailand soon after almost 8 years of living here. I won't support a country or a government that disregards its people's voices to this extent, uses mainstream media (the Bangkok Post) to lie about what the red shirts are really saying, and treats the average person like a 'buffalo'.
This article is nothing more than 'hate speech' against the red shirts - something the elitist author says she is against. When hi-so Thais get a clue and realize their days of running the country are numbered, then maybe I'll come back. Until that point though, I'd rather spend my time contributing to a TRUE democracy and not the farce that Thailand has become.
I also now warn all my readers not to come to Thailand, not to support a country that is this backward, not to support a country that discriminates against anyone that's not Thai, and not to support this government that does nothing but lie to its people.
I'm a writer and, as such, have decided to leave Thailand soon after almost 8 years of living here. I won't support a country or a government that disregards its people's voices to this extent, uses mainstream media (the Bangkok Post) to lie about what the red shirts are really saying, and treats the average person like a 'buffalo'.
This article is nothing more than 'hate speech' against the red shirts - something the elitist author says she is against. When hi-so Thais get a clue and realize their days of running the country are numbered, then maybe I'll come back. Until that point though, I'd rather spend my time contributing to a TRUE democracy and not the farce that Thailand has become.
I also now warn all my readers not to come to Thailand, not to support a country that is this backward, not to support a country that discriminates against anyone that's not Thai, and not to support this government that does nothing but lie to its people.
Comment 23
knighthadam date : 09/05/2010 time : 13:07
date : 09/05/2010 time : 13:07
I think your point about hate speech is very well crafted and furnishes a great space for compromise between sacred belief and political freedom. Refreshing to read :)
One idea I have:
In Australia the capital canberra is outside the large urban centres meaning the government is no longer viewed as biased towards a particular urban community - and the investment and disposable income of the bureaucracy is funnelled into a rural area
If some government departments in Thailand were moved outside of Bangkok to somewhere to places like Chiang Rai, or Ayutyah, might that help difuse the notion of a Bangkok elite and inbreeding within the bureacracy?
Adam
One idea I have:
In Australia the capital canberra is outside the large urban centres meaning the government is no longer viewed as biased towards a particular urban community - and the investment and disposable income of the bureaucracy is funnelled into a rural area
If some government departments in Thailand were moved outside of Bangkok to somewhere to places like Chiang Rai, or Ayutyah, might that help difuse the notion of a Bangkok elite and inbreeding within the bureacracy?
Adam
Comment 24
Freeman360 date : 10/05/2010 time : 02:51
date : 10/05/2010 time : 02:51
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
Voltaire
Are some people really dumb enough to believe that Taksin and his corrupt cronies will give Thailand peace, justice and democracy? As for those foreigners who back the red shirts, Lenin referred to foreigners who backed his communist revolution as "useful idiots." And that is exactly what those who back the red shirts are - useful if one wishes to return Thailand into the hands of Taksin's evil and corruption. This is not a battle between poor farmers and Bangkok; it is a battle between the rich and powerful on one side and the rich and powerful on the other.
Comment 26
Felicity date : 10/05/2010 time : 04:24
date : 10/05/2010 time : 04:24
Problem with Thailand is that the country is taken advantage of by the Chinese, so called ThaiChinese. Look at all your cities and towns, every gold shop, jewellery shop, and pawn shop is run by Chinese. They put their silly Chinese writings in places where there are no Chinese custumers. Its the Thais, the gullible poor Thais whose hard-earned Baht is targeted by these greedy Chinese. All the big bahts in Thailand are slowly and surely swallowed by the Chinese.
Thaksin's is a Chinese family. Beware!
Its time for the humble Thai to reclaim their country and their wealth. Felicity
Thaksin's is a Chinese family. Beware!
Its time for the humble Thai to reclaim their country and their wealth. Felicity
Comment 27
doctor J date : 10/05/2010 time : 05:10
date : 10/05/2010 time : 05:10
Does khun Sanitsuda honestly believe the PM is capable for all your demands, when the state-run TV,NBT relentlessly propagates 'hate-the-red' messages 24/7, when LM is actively abused far beyond the context of reality like the 'antimonarch network'.
some of the journalists in Bangkokpost are ridiculing themselves the way khun Sanitsuda criticized in the article on a daily basis. Yes, journalists can have their own political opinions/stances. But aren't journalists aware of their fundamental obligation, to provide ALL the informations. Those who fail to do this,can't be considered good practice. I'm sure you won't forget the role of media in Rwanda. I'm sure you share with my commnet that SOME of Thai medias are doing exactly the same thing rightnow.
some of the journalists in Bangkokpost are ridiculing themselves the way khun Sanitsuda criticized in the article on a daily basis. Yes, journalists can have their own political opinions/stances. But aren't journalists aware of their fundamental obligation, to provide ALL the informations. Those who fail to do this,can't be considered good practice. I'm sure you won't forget the role of media in Rwanda. I'm sure you share with my commnet that SOME of Thai medias are doing exactly the same thing rightnow.
Comment 28
The Kid date : 10/05/2010 time : 06:02
date : 10/05/2010 time : 06:02
I am really pretty tired of hearing that all sides need to be reported equally and treated equally by the media. This is simply not true. There is a difference between news reporting and editorializing. The news stories should report the events and leave the opinions out, this I agree with. I do not agree, however, that when delivering commentary on the events that each side should get equal time and equal consideration. In an extreme example, this would mean that groups supporting genocide should be treated equally and given equal time to be heard. Does anyone really agree with that? When a group of people are breaking the law (agree with it or not) they should not all the sudden be equal in the eyes of the media. The media does have some responsibility to the society is reports to. Giving equal time and validity to law breakers and insurgents is the same as supporting both. Should a responsible media really support breaking laws and taking arms against the government?
Comment 29
Leosia date : 10/05/2010 time : 09:08
date : 10/05/2010 time : 09:08
If Thailand dropped the absurd LM law and adopted clear libel and defamation laws it might stand a chance of seeing the world more clearly. As it stands, when you reduce everything down to concepts like "hate speech" and "anti-monarchy" you promote the use of censorship and royalism as a political tool. Of course it would also help to have a clear and transparent legal system.
Comment 30
Thai fan date : 10/05/2010 time : 10:32
date : 10/05/2010 time : 10:32
Keep on speaking up and voice your opinions, since this is an article not news report! Those who on the 'red' side might not realise that or pretend to forget or like to hear bad and abused, irritating speech. There are better ways to speak out without bad words words which have basis on hate. Hate, in Buddhism, is one of the three danger of the heart. Keep the mouth clean!
Comment 31
Werner streuli date : 10/05/2010 time : 13:30
date : 10/05/2010 time : 13:30
A perfect article indeed. Gangsterrally is a bit strong, but invading a hospital justifies such an expression. Also all this whining about poor Isan people is silly. The goal of the Reds is simply to get their idol Mr. Th. back in power and jump on the redistribution wagon. They don't give a hoot for the fate of the Isan farmer, they use these people for their own purposes. Mr. Abhisit so far has proven to be rather competent and patient. But it would be a wise move towards social peace if he was to seriously improve the education system. To those who complain about the greater number of hospitals in Bangkok I say this: The population in the Isan is far less dense. You can't have a hospital at every corner. I had to seek medical help a few times while traveling in the Isan (my wife was born there) and was always able to find help. My wifes mother is elderly and not very healthy, she too has always been well treated in one of those country hospitals. Also I would mention the many health clinics which you find in most smaller places and which do a fine job. The few fortunate ones who demand 5 Star hospitals can also afford to travel to Bangkok where they find such establishments.
Comment 32
Patrick Hennessy date : 10/05/2010 time : 13:39
date : 10/05/2010 time : 13:39
Khun Sanitsuda,
I regret to say that you are naieve.
If you have a job in the Bangkok Post as a journalist you must have excellent English, which you do.
If you have excellent English it is 95% sure you studied abroad when younger.
If your family could afford to pay for you to study abroad you are in the top 1% of Thailands socio-economic class.
Given the above you are from the very elite the redshirts justifably claim do not understand or care about their problems
Just how much of the concerns of a 55 year old woman eking out a hand to mouth existence in Isaan would you understand? The daily grind, the lack of basic needs, the pervasive presence of loan sharks, powerful local mobsters, and corrupt police.
Take a 5 month sabbatical from the Post and go live in a Isaan village on 2000 baht a month.
Then come back and write an article on how you liked it.
Patrick
I regret to say that you are naieve.
If you have a job in the Bangkok Post as a journalist you must have excellent English, which you do.
If you have excellent English it is 95% sure you studied abroad when younger.
If your family could afford to pay for you to study abroad you are in the top 1% of Thailands socio-economic class.
Given the above you are from the very elite the redshirts justifably claim do not understand or care about their problems
Just how much of the concerns of a 55 year old woman eking out a hand to mouth existence in Isaan would you understand? The daily grind, the lack of basic needs, the pervasive presence of loan sharks, powerful local mobsters, and corrupt police.
Take a 5 month sabbatical from the Post and go live in a Isaan village on 2000 baht a month.
Then come back and write an article on how you liked it.
Patrick
Comment 33
Peter date : 11/05/2010 time : 04:31
Freeman300 (24) quotes Voltaire giving a definition of the freedom of expression, against all form of censure. Democraty need a multi-sided Information. Mrs EKACHAI just shows for what propaganda and misinformation are hateful and dangerous. She can't listen or read what say the redshirts, their medias are censored... And i doubt she went to their rallyes to hear the orators. So, how she knows so well what happens there? She talks about ''gangster'' or mouthpiece of Thaksin, exactlly as we daily can read in ''official'' press. When hearsay, half-truths and lies are used to demonise, the arguments are uninteresting. The good ''Pink/Yellow'', the bad ''Red'' and the ugly T, we already know. I like the lampoon... but only when it's funny
Comment 34
Peter date : 11/05/2010 time : 06:22
comment 28 is right, but if Bangkok Post (and no have a lot in the thai medias for now) opens the forum, we also can give an opinion. That's a good democratic exchange. Unfortunatly, the period is not so quiet and, by the way, the comments often are epidermics.
Comment 35
Brian date : 11/05/2010 time : 08:04
date : 11/05/2010 time : 08:04
The problem with lese majeste is that its use is often far outside its meaning and intent, and that by existing at all, it keeps any country that imposes it, firmly rooted in feudalism, paternalism and a hierarchical mindset.
A confident, modern society should be able to comfortably criticize its institutions, while still revering them without threat, if their existence has meaning and purpose, and is therefore justified.
The problem arises when lese majeste is imposed to create mythic power in support of the status quo, in order to elevate and protect the few and subjugate the many.
A confident, modern society should be able to comfortably criticize its institutions, while still revering them without threat, if their existence has meaning and purpose, and is therefore justified.
The problem arises when lese majeste is imposed to create mythic power in support of the status quo, in order to elevate and protect the few and subjugate the many.
Comment 36
Peter date : 11/05/2010 time : 11:08
comment 21, when you know the guilty before the Police takes him and before the Justice talks, are you sure that you are in a democracy, Somebody told you the Reds sent grenades on Silom? Have you read it or listened on TV? Take care the Othello syndrom... Othello believed Iago and killed Desdemona. She had done nothing...
In my country, for a sentence like that, you have to prove your assertion or to pay a lot for gossip and defamation. I think better you wait the Justice says tghe Right.
Comment 37
Harumann date : 11/05/2010 time : 12:19
Sometimes it's hard to believe that Thailand is a buddhist country. Both sides of this conflict are very far from The Middle Way. Both sides are contaminated by what is called the Three Poisons or Three Evil Roots (greed/attachment, anger/ill-will and delusion/stupidity).
I'm going back to my Ajahn Chah books. Maybe I'm trying to escape from reality, but reading the wise forest monks is much more inspiring than following this conflict.
I'm going back to my Ajahn Chah books. Maybe I'm trying to escape from reality, but reading the wise forest monks is much more inspiring than following this conflict.
Comment 38
honestabe date : 11/05/2010 time : 15:26
date : 11/05/2010 time : 15:26
Blowin' In The Wind
How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?
Yes, ’n’ how many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand?
Yes, ’n’ how many times must the cannonballs fly
Before they’re forever banned?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
How many years can a mountain exist
Before it’s washed to the sea?
Yes, ’n’ how many years can some people exist
Before they’re allowed to be free?
Yes, ’n’ how many times can a man turn his head
Pretending he just doesn’t see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, ’n’ how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, ’n’ how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
Written by Bob Dylan
"In 1962, Dylan said of the song's background: "I still say that some of the biggest criminals are those that turn their heads away when they see wrong and they know it's wrong. I'm only 21 years old and I know that there's been too many wars...You people over 21 should know better."
How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?
Yes, ’n’ how many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand?
Yes, ’n’ how many times must the cannonballs fly
Before they’re forever banned?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
How many years can a mountain exist
Before it’s washed to the sea?
Yes, ’n’ how many years can some people exist
Before they’re allowed to be free?
Yes, ’n’ how many times can a man turn his head
Pretending he just doesn’t see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, ’n’ how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, ’n’ how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
Written by Bob Dylan
"In 1962, Dylan said of the song's background: "I still say that some of the biggest criminals are those that turn their heads away when they see wrong and they know it's wrong. I'm only 21 years old and I know that there's been too many wars...You people over 21 should know better."
Comment 39
Jacktar date : 11/05/2010 time : 16:04
date : 11/05/2010 time : 16:04
As a farang who loves Thailand and her people and who's second home is Thailand can I suggest that my 'fellow farang' who comment with - " in my country etc. this or that happens or doesn't happen", just pack their bags, go home and leave Thai business to the Thais !
Comment 40
Peter date : 12/05/2010 time : 04:34
To 39. Jacktar, for your pleasure, i reformulate my sentence : In Thailand, gossip and defamation are blameworthy and reprehensible by law, as in my native country. We just have seen an exemple, last day, for a fortune teller and i invite you to read this link, especialy the preamble:
http://www.article19.org/pdfs/analysis/thailand-impact-of-defamation-law-on-freedom-of-expression.pdf
Be sure I love Thailand and her people as much as you.
Comment 41
ken date : 12/05/2010 time : 05:02
date : 12/05/2010 time : 05:02
The only comments I can give is that thai is belong to thai.Find a way is suit thai and don't blindly follow the so call western democratic.As our society still haven't come to that stage free speech,press,transparent and corrupt-free.I do hope for next govern please try your best to work to accomodate our all so call high or low classes and make it nobody is above law set by parliment.
Comment 42
Jacktar date : 12/05/2010 time : 05:33
date : 12/05/2010 time : 05:33
to Peter ,#40...stick to reading Shakespeare my friend, what is happening in Bangkok at present is REAL life, not melodramatic "soap opera" from another time and place.
Comment 43
Peter date : 12/05/2010 time : 09:16
I just learn than Shakespeare wrote soap operas. Jaktar, the Othello syndrom is a paranoid schizophrenia, it consists in persuading himself of the guilt of somebody (wife). I translate for you what i tried to write: you know who is guilty when Police catch him and after a deliberation of justice. Never because you believe he is guilty, you are sure he is guilty or your neighbour told you he is guilty. To be or not to be (guilty), that is the question. By the way, i precise that Voltaire, invoqued in the posts, is not an armchair but a philosophe, from another place and time.
Comment 44
Chris date : 12/05/2010 time : 09:24
date : 12/05/2010 time : 09:24
As a (foreign) teacher of 13 yeats in both Chaing Mai and Bangkok, I can honestly say that Thailand's number on e enemy is corruption. I see it among many teachers and ALL principles. Students cheat and copy with reckless abandon, not even knowing that stuff is wrong.And I despise the feudal management/philosophy system Thais adhere to in their schools -- and likely all organizations.
Thailand's problems have their roots in the catastrophic "education" syatem here. Thank god I am leaving to teach in another nation, where, hopefully, people value learning and knowledge (unlike Thais).
Thailand's problems have their roots in the catastrophic "education" syatem here. Thank god I am leaving to teach in another nation, where, hopefully, people value learning and knowledge (unlike Thais).
Comment 45
Jacktar date : 12/05/2010 time : 15:44
date : 12/05/2010 time : 15:44
Chris ( comment #44) on a light note and sorry to nit-pick, but don't you mean "many teachers and ALL p-r-i-n-c-i-p-a-l-s"...hope you're not teaching English, my favourite subject :)
Apologies, but my brain needed a bit of relief after trying to decipher what "Peter" was trying to tell me in comment #43.
Apologies, but my brain needed a bit of relief after trying to decipher what "Peter" was trying to tell me in comment #43.
Comment 46
jackaroo date : 14/05/2010 time : 03:21
date : 14/05/2010 time : 03:21
"the present form of lese majeste laws prevents rational discussion on the royal institution, allowing easy abuse while pushing dissent underground."
I'd like to congratulate Khun Sanitsuda to this succinct description of one of Thailand's major obstacles to the resolution of many a political/social conflict.
However, LM doesn't seem to be 'only' some law that can and should be changed and then things will go the right direction. In my view, LM and the way it has been (mis)used in current times seem to reflect something that is deeply rooted in Thai culture. For example, if you look at the dynamics in many Thai families you will find a similar 'prohibition' of open dissent from the younger generation towards the older, that goes way beyond "respecting the elders". Parents are revered to an extent where it is very very difficult for even an adult to express respectful dissent with his/her parents and not follow their directions. Or look at the reality in many Thai offices! How is conflict resolved, how are dissenting opinions/new ideas brought forward and assessed, etc. Do kids learn in school to question set beliefs, are they trained in critical thinking? Are students in university encouraged to form their own opinions, articulate them in an appropriate manner, or even dissent with their professors if they see fit?
No, this is not only about changing one law, but it could very well start there! I wish Thailand peace, real peace - not the false peace where everybody smiles and doesn't listen to the other, the false peace that can erupt in fierce violence any moment.
I'd like to congratulate Khun Sanitsuda to this succinct description of one of Thailand's major obstacles to the resolution of many a political/social conflict.
However, LM doesn't seem to be 'only' some law that can and should be changed and then things will go the right direction. In my view, LM and the way it has been (mis)used in current times seem to reflect something that is deeply rooted in Thai culture. For example, if you look at the dynamics in many Thai families you will find a similar 'prohibition' of open dissent from the younger generation towards the older, that goes way beyond "respecting the elders". Parents are revered to an extent where it is very very difficult for even an adult to express respectful dissent with his/her parents and not follow their directions. Or look at the reality in many Thai offices! How is conflict resolved, how are dissenting opinions/new ideas brought forward and assessed, etc. Do kids learn in school to question set beliefs, are they trained in critical thinking? Are students in university encouraged to form their own opinions, articulate them in an appropriate manner, or even dissent with their professors if they see fit?
No, this is not only about changing one law, but it could very well start there! I wish Thailand peace, real peace - not the false peace where everybody smiles and doesn't listen to the other, the false peace that can erupt in fierce violence any moment.
Comment 47
tom date : 14/05/2010 time : 05:29
date : 14/05/2010 time : 05:29
Censorship in anyform is tryannical and cannot exist in a real democratic society. Thai radio and tv media is all government owned, internet sites are blocked more and more. The average, even educated thai, is often naive of what's really happening in their country. Leaders have no right to use defamation lawsuits to silence their critics. Real leadership listens and encourages critism and open dialogue on every subject.
Comment 48
enzo ferrari date : 14/05/2010 time : 08:04
date : 14/05/2010 time : 08:04
To: Comment #22, Michele
I hope when you get back to that "true democracy" you take a serious look around! The most touted 'democracy' in the world (USA) is anything but. When the President can get away with 'insider trading' and not get investigated; corrupt the polls and still get elected; detain political prisoners in USA's private jail in Cuba(which makes the house arrest in Burma look tame)and walk free--is that 'democracy'?
Truth is all countries are a work in progress....let Thailand go through it's process.
I hope when you get back to that "true democracy" you take a serious look around! The most touted 'democracy' in the world (USA) is anything but. When the President can get away with 'insider trading' and not get investigated; corrupt the polls and still get elected; detain political prisoners in USA's private jail in Cuba(which makes the house arrest in Burma look tame)and walk free--is that 'democracy'?
Truth is all countries are a work in progress....let Thailand go through it's process.
Comment 49
tony esmonde date : 27/05/2010 time : 13:04
date : 27/05/2010 time : 13:04
As a regular visitor to Thailand, I am very upset with what has happened in Bangkok these past 2 weeks. Will someone please explain to me the meaning of the words democracy and reconciliation? look over the border, tell me the difference with the Myanmar and Thai governments-got it! "same same". I urge all potential visitors to Thailand to follow foreign Government advice and reassess their need to visit Thailand-for good!
India also has started arresting people for hate speech.
More these type of recent arrests (http://tinyurl.com/tunercat02) show there is political will by India to clean up cyber space. In this case annoying words were occurring on cyber forum naming important persons like ex High Court judge. It is an interesting case but it is incompleted.
If India can do it Thailand can do it too.
More these type of recent arrests (http://tinyurl.com/tunercat02) show there is political will by India to clean up cyber space. In this case annoying words were occurring on cyber forum naming important persons like ex High Court judge. It is an interesting case but it is incompleted.
If India can do it Thailand can do it too.
Comment 51
PaulC date : 08/07/2010 time : 14:37
date : 08/07/2010 time : 14:37
A very dangerous situation is to believe, and convince a person that they are a superior being.
We only have decent morals, our society will turned out to be much more wonderful. So great, if we work hard together, we will come true the dream. It's a great program. Is it right?
This post has 2 feedbacks awaiting moderation...
Comment feed for this postLeave a comment
Sign in once and access every part of the website at your convenience!
Please log in to our Bangkokpost.com community to post your comments. You can sign in to the community by clicking here.
If you weren't part of the community yet, please sign up here.
By being part of this community you will get all these privileges.
Blogger info
- Name: Sanitsuda
- Email: sanitsudae@bangkokpost.co.th
- MSN:
- Entry: 107
Hello Sanitsuda.
I just want to tell you and everybody else how tired and bored I am from this socall political war/conflickt.
When will I read about political subjects such as; pollution, farmproduct prices, conditions for farming, education ( why does not anybody speak english in this country except from some girls speaking Pattaya english)
health politic, traffic problems, corruption ( in my country people get in big trouble if they are more wealthy then the legal income tells.) narcotic problems, flooding, lack of water for farming,
And for me personal; I live in a country with a healthy and strong economy, but I have to pay more and more for my bath as the days pass by.
Why is the bath so strong?
Do somebody from abroad buy your country?
Why do the bank stocks rising?
Is it because they control huge area of farmland due to debt problems.
I dont know.
Just asking.
With regards:
Thaifrelst.