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• levenfeld

  Discussion 54 : 09/01/2009 at 12:48 AM54

  To Sloth and wtf.
  
  You are all both so right in your views on the political issues in Thailand of today. It is nice to see that we have such enlightened people in our growing PAD movement. Now I fully understand that we have spent our money wisely.
  
  Come to think of it. Now that we have kicked this toxic Usurper (Yes that’s THAKSIN) out of office and reclaimed our birth given right to govern this country, now we really have the opportunity to stop this nonsense permanently and set up hinders for such an obscure situation to ever reoccur again. These ignorant, poor, northern excuses of non human low life must once and for all learn the basic fact that their opinions never again will bear any weight when it comes to governing this country.
  
  Now that we can rightfully claim we gained power in a democratic fashion, we must learn from history and set up solid barriers that secures our future for the next one thousand years and secure us the position where we belong; in charge of the political power of this amazing nation. To obtain that goal we must make sure we can stay in control of courts, the army and the police as we have established the last couple of years. This is the very important lesson history taught us. Then we of course must make sure that the press continue to write the stories we want them to tell. Obviously we’re in good progress there already.
  
  But of course the sad fact will still remain, that there will no matter how much we suppress the media, remain a few of these dreadful, poor, ignorant losers up north and in Isaan. Well history have given us a lesson there to; we can put up special camps to relocate an re-educate these people in what is truly in their best interests and sole true conception of life. Simple, but the final solution to the problem this nation now and ever after is going to face.
  
  And for this BLASTING AND IRRITATING DREY; please remember that it not only Saddam who have weapons of mass destruction. I guess gassing you will be the appropriate answer for you.
  
  So thank you both, one more time wtf and Sloth for joining our fantastic PAD movement. Really hope you were satisfied with your payslip, don’t worry there’s a lot more coming now that we’re back in the control of government. You know what they say; if you’re not with us you’re against us and if so we must crush you literally like an insect.

• Drey

  Discussion 53 : 08/01/2009 at 11:06 PM53

  NEW COMMENTS PLEASE READ. For the record, Thaksin was likely one of the least corrupt leaders, if at all, in a long time. To make my points valid and serious I DO NOT wish Thaksin to return to power but only to see honest un-biased justice and a true Democracy for all Thai's (including neutral justice FOR Thaksin).
  
  Many people with no knowldege of the history of Thai politics are making wild statements based only on their emotions without foresight.
  
  So please lets FIRST GET OUR FACTS OUT IN THE OPEN AND RIGHT:
  
  1/ It took a military coup appointed biased supreme court and government over 2 years to convict Thaksin and even with that THE CASE WAS SO WEAK EVEN THE COUP JUDGES FOUND IT EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO CONVICT HIM AND BARELY RULED AGAINST HIM 5 to 4 (remember?).
  
  2/ The most damning evidence is reported to have come from "SPOKEN WORDS" and "WRITTEN TESTAMENT" of a very few elite insiders. This came years into the coup, anyone can argue such "testaments" were forced out, paid for etc.....why did these people wait SO MANY YEARS and only during the coup before suddenly coming out with these accusations and "NEW" evidence procurred by the coup leaders.
  
  3/ The length of time to convict Thaksin points to the strong potential that the accusations were brought forth in order to "engineer" the convictions so that his opponents could discredit and disgrace him, a point he himself is making by fleeing the country saying "he cannot get a fair trial" in Thailand under the coup appointed system. Possible right? Likely, YES!
  
  4/ It is said "All politicians are corrupt". The vast majority of Thaksin's businesses value (money) was made prior to his becoming the PM. Remember the first accusation by the infant PAD that Thaksin cannot be head of businesses when head of the country? So what did Thaksin do? He agreed and passed on LEGALLY all of his businesses to family members and trusted business partners. Nothing wrong with that is there? It is what his opponents first demanded of him yes? But was that enough for the PAD? No! That was just the beginning of their attacks and accusations (condoned, supported if not orchestrated by the Democrats) to destroy his leadership and party. Why? For Power of course. So, even if he or his associates were corrupt in some way the amount of money that Thaksin is reported to have been corrupt with, is far less than the country has lost through the PAD's actions only by shutting down the airports ILLEGALLY BUT UNPROSECUTED. Try to add up all the damage to the country since the PAD first protested back in 2003? So, THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION WE MUST ALL ASK IS why have the PAD leaders and all persons involved in shutting down the airports, destroying government property, killing Thai citizens NOT BEEN JAILED ??? Anyone out there, WHY ??? A crime is a crime right ???
  
  5/ Going back to the last Democrat government, why was there no bans or convictions or dissolvement? Why were they so protected against guilty verdicts?
  
  6/ Moving forward a few years later, why, after the OAG recommended (based on the new military coup Constitution) that the TRT and the Democrats be dissolved, was only the TRT dissolved BUT ONLY THE TRT WAS??? Why were the Democrats protected from all this??? Something smells right everyone???
  
  7/ VERY IMPORTANT is that those behind the military coup changed the constitution in 2007 so that it protects ALL CNS members who organised the coup, as they are immune from all previous actions taken. This is said to be why the 2007 constitution is being "protected" by the PAD, certain people will lose their immunity and likely could be tried for treason from breaking the "Peoples Charter" they threw in the rubbish bin and replaced with their 2007 version. Do you think the PAD are worried about just little old Thaksin ? Make sense to everyone? I HOPE SO!
  
  8/ The current Supreme Court Judges who have ruled 100% of the cases against the TRT, PPP Government & officials as guilty WERE HAND-PICKED, CHOOSEN BY THE MILITARY COUP GOVERNMENT. Does that not reek of corruption and a failed legal system? Can everyone not see the BIG problems with neutral justice in Thailand???
  
  9/ The last election took place under the coup appointed system, under martial law in places, with solidiers reported to be sent out to "speak to people", with the solidiers reportedly order to vote Democrat, with reportedly massive resources placed out to watch all PPP politicians for corruption but ignore other parties, and in spite of this the PPP won. The PAD claims the election was biased and not fair are in fact correct, the last elections were extrremely biased against the PPP and yet still they won.
  
  10/ People "hate" the Democrats as they are seen as the "untouchables" with a lot of old Elite rulers in the background pulling all the strings. Which is why its said they are immune to all charges and are said, by most peopele, to be the most corrupt of all, representing the "old ways" and "old power cliques". We can see this clearly in the fact that every legal case thrown into the courts against the TRT, PPP government and its representatives is a "GUILTY VERDICT". While all cases against the Democrats, PAD are "NEVER GUILTY VERDICTS". Does everybody truly believe that the Democrats are so clean and pure angels? Did the PAD do many things illegal? YES, we all know it and saw it on television BUT will they ever stand trial? And if so, more important will they ever be found guilty???
  
  11/ Other not less than important facts include nation dividing actions such as the minority Democrat MP's NEVER once tried to work with the majority government (TRT or PPP...) AND NEVER lifted one finger (or lip) to follow the law of the nation against the PAD's numerous crimes.
  
  12/ It is the Democrats who have the history as being some of the worse, MOST CORRUPT, nation robbers which is why we saw the rise of the TRT in the first place (remember everyone???).
  
  13/ It is the Democrats who likely supported & orchestrated this entire mess we see since the 2007 military coup. Why we ask? The answer is simple. POWER = MONEY = PERSONAL GAIN. "Once Corrupted Always Corrupted" All you followers of the PAD and Democrats who enjoyed seeing Democracy vanish in the 2007 coup PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO READ THE HISTORY OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
  
  14/ Under PM Thaksin leadership Thailand became the number 1 ranked economy in S.E.Asia. Today Thailand ranks 3rd and falling. It is economic prosperity that brings a better life to all Thais. PM Thaksin is a brilliant businessman with powerful associates in governments & businesses throughout the world. He knows how to run a country. How to make it work and get everyone involved. He knows how to spread the wealth so that the foundation is stronger, can last longer. That is why everyone could see a REAL difference in their quality of life when he was leading. The Majority of Thai's still feel that PM Thaksin truly cares about them, Thailand and their wellbeing.
  
  The list of discussion points and facts goes on and on, but while many here simply say Thaksin or not, the whole Yellow against Red is more than just him, it goes back to before him and will carry on after him as it is now, there is far far far more at stake, so please open your minds.
  
  PAD/Democrats now want everyone to "give the government a chance..." They think anarchy is only starting now that the reds are protesting the stealing of a country by the minority? Wake up! Anarchy started when the Military got the green light to take-over the government in 2007, changing the constitution so that one bad apple destroys the entire majority party (twice). Anarchy was there when PM Samak lost his job because of a cooking show (the world laughed at the ruling against him). Anarchy has been in front of everyone's televisions with the yellow shirts doing anything/everything they want without worry of Democratic laws being enforced. The majority will win the rich Bangkok elite. Just wait and see. And don't think for one second it is a North versus South problem. Many MANY southern Thai's understand what is Democracy and what is not. Go Red's. Protect the country from old money power hungry thief's.
  
  Does every Democrat/PAD supporter think I am one of those "uneducated voters" who do not know how to vote correctly? Or was paid off to vote? Facts are facts so please don't distort them. Thaksin made his money from the bottom up working his
  business into businesses that grew and grew. He is extremely business savvy. Nothing wrong with making money the old fashioned way is there? That is what capitalism and democracy support. Individual freedom to prosper (legally). He ran for office to help all Thai's prosper or do you think he did it soley to make his already
  huge assets larger? Just look at Thaksin's results, Thailand became the number 1 S.E.Asia economy during his leadership. Today, with all the Coup's and Protest's, Thailand is ranked 3rd and falling fast. I choose to believe it is the fore not the latter. So thanks all you coup/dictatorship lovers thanks for trying
  to make a point. Sorry it missed badly.
  
  Now the Police/Military have decided to take their jobs seriously to control the "Reds". Makes me ill how the Democrats/PAD can manipulate and destroy the country and the votes of 67% (those that did not vote Democrat) of all Thai's. The PAD can attack anything/everything without any problems from law enforcement. How disgusting is that for the future of Democracy? Which color protester is the true freedom fighter? For me its not yellow.
  
  Finally, vote buying! What crap! The vast majority (99% at least) who voted TRT or PPP or any other party were not paid one baht. The majority is still the majority no matter what the PAD/Democrats wish to believe.
  
  The True Thai Majority...Protect Democracy!

• soveny

  Discussion 52 : 08/01/2009 at 04:29 PM52

  #obs
  
  Its boring to bring it down to this level but I am on vacation so this time , just for you.
  
  According to you, I am brainwashed, ok?
  
  According to me, you are brainless, ok?
  
  Now, we have solved the problems of Thailand,
  
  Thanks and good bye!

• Ronnald

  Discussion 51 : 08/01/2009 at 02:57 PM51

  Sloth, I think OBS misunderstood what you wanted to say and actually WROTE something infantile.
  
  WTF you do not really need to tell us you have a military background....it comes through loud and clear....

• obs

  Discussion 50 : 08/01/2009 at 01:08 PM50

  @ Soveny
  
  Exactly why do you pity us? We are in charge now. We are having our best time. Carpe Diem! Get over it and stop crying. Looks like your Isaan wife/gik/mia noi/ST/LT must've brainwashed you after being brainwashed themselves by the Toxin propaganda. I am just so surprised to see that you (hopefully with some IQ left) buy those stories. So who's the uneducated now?

• sloth

  Discussion 49 : 08/01/2009 at 12:38 PM49

  Hello everyone, I am new here. Are these postings always so infantile? Insults rather than intelligent discussion seem to be the order of the day. Well let’s see if we can change this some. I understand that what I am about to state will be controversial to some. If so, please reply…but try to reply with thoughts rather than the childish garbage that seems to dominate here. This is actually a place where people can actually share and learn, if they are willing to. [by the way, I am not stupid and certainly anticipate a large wad of crap being thrown at me by all reds] Here is what I believe. PAD was justified in what it did. It created civil disobedience to disrupt the nominee government of a convicted criminal from amending the constitution, thereby excusing Thaksin’s crimes and free the Gang of 111 from their political exile. It held-up government action until the courts could act under the law. Was PAD perfect?...absolutely not, but it was the far, far lesser evil than the Thaksin Gang.
  
  So many posters decline to look beyond the law. In some instances, civil disobedience is necessary and appropriate. History is full of examples, like Gandhi or Rosa Parks in USA. A former and famous Justice of the US Supreme Court, William O. Douglas wrote a wonderful book on this topic [Points of Rebellion, available on Amazon in paperback]. Douglas' primary point is that the people are sometimes justified in civil disobedience and disruption, in fact, even rebellion, when the government is very corrupt. I agree with this principle.
  The reds see in PAD nothing more than criminals because they simply do not see the distinction...or they do not want to. PAD clearly broke the law, but they did so with civil justification for a higher purpose. Certainly taking over airports was very disrupting and inconvenienced many travelers....but there can be no justifiable comparison between this and killing people and blowing off their limbs with tear gas grenades (Oct 7).
  The Thaksin nominees are gone now, however, so PAD should fit itself into the system. It should form a political party and follow the law, like it expects everyone else to do. At this moment, it seems to me that whatever justification PAD had for acting above the law has passed, at least for now.
  Now let us see if the reds can reply with any thoughts of substance rather than their childish slurs.

• mac

  Discussion 48 : 08/01/2009 at 11:23 AM48

  The problem is that the concept of the rule of law has been badly undermined by the lack of action against PAD's illegal occupation of the airports and government house, and the allowing of mob rule to overthrow a democratically elected government. That has taught people that acting outside the law to achieve political aims is o.k.
  
  When the 'law' then decides to prosecute people for using the same mob tactics of PAD, it is clear there are two sets of rules, one for people the 'government' supports, and another for everyone else. The result: a total lack of respect for the law and those who so selectively enforce it. So, whilst it is nice to see that the police are now reverting to trying to enforce law and order again, it's somewhat too late.

• soveny

  Discussion 47 : 08/01/2009 at 10:33 AM47

  #obs
  
  I see where you stand and I cant but pitty you and those connected with you. Most of the time, a confused mind goes with the lack of education. But you should know by now that there IS s slight differens between a Tatoo and an Argument!

• wtf

  Discussion 46 : 08/01/2009 at 09:56 AM46

  Nice try Ronnald - buying votes, running a 19th century style political machine doesn't make you a "democratically" elected government. And it was the people's duty to bring it down. Yes, PAD did kill the first victim of the protests - WHEN UDD protesters deliberately left their protest site, and charged into PAD's lines with machetes and sowrds. If you had a gun you would have shot back too. Anyone sane would and it clearly fits self-defense criteria.
  
  Cutting the water to government buildings is also perfectly fine as long as they aren't hospitals.
  
  Can you prove that they had explosives in their truck or the circumstances behind that dead PAD guard wrapped in plastic? I'm not being rhetorical, I would really appreciate a link or a source.
  
  As far as attacking the police - all bets were off when they threw grenades into the crowd. I saw clear as day a grenade in the hands of those police - and throwing it. I have military experience and I have thrown them personally (not at unarmed protesters) and the wounds suffered by the protesters were consistent with shrapnel wounds. When the police exceed their mandate to protect and serve and become an violent arm of oppression - they are fair game. The kidnapped police officers were not harmed.
  
  Real change rarely comes at the ballot box - the founders of Democracy were knee deep in blood. Considering that PAD never resorted to offensive violence and achieved their means is actually quite admirable.

• Ronnald

  Discussion 45 : 08/01/2009 at 09:10 AM45

  The PAD taking over government grounds I understand. They shot dead the first victim in the streets. OK. They cut water supply to the government house. They were armed and confronted police violently.
  
  They took over the airports, and were armed, seen on the TV screen shooting at passers-by waving pictures of the king.
  
  I understand. They wanted change.
  
  They handed out well edited CD's showing them in a good light. Propaganda? Yeah, well that's ok.
  
  They had explosives, and one truck blew up and killed one of their supporters. It was parked outside a government office. S*** happens.
  
  They kidnapped two police officers, once seen on TV pushing him into the back seat of a car. The media thereafter never followed up.
  
  One man was found dead wrapped in a plastic sheet in an area the PAD used for their "body guards". Never mind, we don't need to know the details surrounding that death.
  
  They also destroyed and stole state secrets. But what the heck, everybody would like to know what goes on behind the scenes.
  
  Oh yeah, they also illegally brought down a democratically elected government, partly referring to the unscrupulous politicians from that government.
  
  Afterward, Abhisit allies himself with those same politicians!
  
  Never mind; that's politics.
  
  But now what happens?
  
  The UDD are throwing rotten eggs!!!
  
  Arrestthose...um...rotten eggs!!!

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