Anupong urges Thaksin to return

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• Drey

  Discussion 49 : 27/01/2009 at 08:13 PM49

  To WTF,
  
  You know whats funny to me? Your posts which one by one seem to have intelligence behind them.
  
  But geez louis guy! Just what exactly do you stand for? I mean your all over the place. Condoning this today, admonishing it the next. Ranting about one side and the next post the other side. Blaming the USA, big corporations and Thaksin for all of Thailands troubles. Blaming Democracy! Claiming there is no such thing as Democracy! Defending the PAD than blowing them off! The only clear persistent position you have are you posts against me :)
  
  Signed, Confused ??? :)

• wtf

  Discussion 48 : 27/01/2009 at 06:09 PM48

  Incredulous:
  
  You'd say at the end of the dark ages that feudalism has served us so well why change? Because something better was there ... Democracy got us to this point and now its time to find a better alternative.
  
  It is so far flung to believe that provinces can govern themselves with a very minimal national government to handle immigration (which they can't even handle now) and "foreign affairs" (almost started a war with Cambodia a few months ago)?
  
  I don't think so. Democracy is a cloak for the elite to hide behind - it is better to keep it out in the open and call it what it is - dictatorship. As technology enables people to do more on their own independent of corporations and government - the latter two will wither away.
  
  Go to YouTube and search CNC and RepRap - check out MIT professor Neil Gershenfeld's work before you tell me how ridiculous I am. Change is inevitable - I suggest you at least look into this concept before you embarrassingly insist the world is flat.

• david massingham

  Discussion 47 : 27/01/2009 at 05:16 PM47

  That's a little disingeniuos-
  
  It was not a simple change of partners, like, say, in European coalitions-
  Chaos at the airport, against an elected government, with a useless police riot squad and army refusing to clear it-
  The Newin faction changing sides, thus giving Anupong Vejjajiva the numbers he needed-
  (Threats from the army or 'incentives' from the Democrats?).
  The Electoral Commission- who appointed this lot?
  Chulanont's puppets?
  If the PAD lot are not brought to 'justice', look out for more trouble-
  Don't worry, they'll get a pardon from the royal house- but then they'll have to do the same for Thaksin, or civil war will be here at last.

• Incredulous

  Discussion 46 : 27/01/2009 at 05:10 PM46

  Okay; this is my last comment, we both need to move on, at least for today...
  
  your response is polite enough, and for that I applaud, but the argument is under-nourished and confused. Community-based governance!!! And you accuse me of dreaming. That's the most unrealistic comment you have ever said. In fact, I dare you to repeat it at other postings. Who is going to run the exchequer, foreign affairs, national laws... you know 'Running the country'.
  
  As for you insistence that the Coup was welcomed by Thais... Why then did the PPP win the following election. You are in Denial...
  
  If the coup was greeted enthusiastically, then why exactly did the Military regime change the constitution, declare Martial Law, censor the news [local/intl], close public radio stations etc.
  
  The pictures of people giving flowers to soldiers in Bkk proves nothing. One; its only Bangkok, and two, they could easily have been a set up.
  
  More accurate is the results of the latest Bkk election. Note that anti-Democrat politicians collectively received the majority of votes, and this was even in Bkk!! The national electorate need to be asked what they think.
  
  Okay that's it, Utopia [community govt] doesn't exist. Our best bet is participatory democracy.

• wtf

  Discussion 45 : 27/01/2009 at 04:39 PM45

  When push came to shove - all those people that "voted" for Thaksin were no where to be found when PAD was throwing him out - the military coup was greeted by an enthusiastic public - and the Red Shirts were mobilized by Thaksin and his cronies to give the only semblance of dissatisfaction with the military lead government.
  
  Again, with Samak and Somchai - where were all these '97 Charter/democracy lovers? In your imagination. Again the only people that came out were paid/bused in thugs wielding machetes and portraits of Thaksin, staging violent counter demonstrations that fizzled after a few days.
  
  The solution is for the people to realize the government is not the solution - in any form - not anarchy but localized, community organization - this isn't 1901 - we are more than capable and already are picking up where the incompetent government lets us down.

• wtf

  Discussion 44 : 27/01/2009 at 04:31 PM44

  I'm not advocating dictatorship - but I'd rather have it out in the open for all to see like it is in Thailand than to cloak it in democracy and "rule of law." Thai people know they have a lousy, corrupt government, and when the government crosses the line they get out into the streets and fight it. Not perfect - but it will do. I'm glad the military removed Thaksin - in this case they actually did their job. I don't care how many people voted for Thaksin - the man was a traitor and a criminal and had to be stopped.
  
  If anything - Thaksin proved how nonviable democracy really is - that a man completely detrimental for a nation and people could be elected twice (like America's Bush) is much scarier than a dictatorship people know, hate, and ceaselessly resist.
  
  Elections are easy to manipulate - easy to get people to vote your way if you've got the right connections - again this is innate knowledge to Thais.

• incredulous

  Discussion 43 : 27/01/2009 at 04:20 PM43

  Quid pro quo WTF -
  
  so what is your 'real solution to the problem' that u allude to #40.
  
  More guns? kill more refugees? torture more people in Pattani?
  
  Thanks for your response; I'm looking forward to it.
  
  If you are so sure of Thai people's views on this matter, then an election [Internationally observed] should be a cakewalk for the Democrats. What are you afrid of? Bring it on...

• Incredulous

  Discussion 42 : 27/01/2009 at 04:11 PM42

  wtf; you seem to be advocating dictatorship - is this true? If the present govt continues to obfuscate, it's only a matter of time before more violence occurs.
  
  What did we have post 1997? We had the system and foundation to consolidate Thai democracy. Was the system imperfect? Yes. Were the institutions weak, Naturally; many has just been introduced. Instead we now have a Military Charter. It protects the Military's role to meddle in politics and it has weakened the role of participatory democracy.
  
  The thing that didn't change thru-out the pre/post TRT years was the role of the Military - just different people in charge - swapping chairs... If you have a grudge it should be against the Army. Nothing will ever change while these khaki clowns are calling the shots.

• wtf

  Discussion 41 : 27/01/2009 at 04:10 PM41

  Hi Incredulous/Drey: Please cite a specific example of something that improved because of the '97 charter.
  
  Please also explain why you claim Thais want their '97 charter but UDD can only manage to get 20 -50 people at a time to come out, and only in Issan or Bangkok where they are bused in - to protest ... and even then, only seem to be capable of expounding their love for Thaksin.
  
  PAD won because Thais have a habit of getting behind movements to get rid of specific bad apples - not fight for lofty, abstract concepts or documents like your People's Charter. Get off it already - you sound like you're writing verbatim Jakropob's UDD rally talking points.

• wtf

  Discussion 40 : 27/01/2009 at 03:54 PM40

  Oh, and gangster politicians and military? We really don't see a difference. Thaksin had military cadres in his pocket too - just not enough.
  
  We can play - who has the highest body count - or we can admit that no progress has been made and find a real solution to the problem.
  
  The 1997 Charter was followed by extrajudicial killings, secret CIA prisons operating on Thai soil, a growing war in the South in which Thaksin's government and appointed generals are the subject of numerous human rights violations - not even mentioning all the theft of land, property, and corruption that took place. It looked nice on paper but the '97 Charter was a joke - you can't actually cite a single example of something that improved - as one poster mentioned, the people in Issan are still eating frogs and lizards and dirt poor. So what really changed that was set back by the military coup? Besides Thaksin's ambitions and those of his globalist handlers?

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