Top officials oppose UDD petition

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• RicefieldRadio

  Discussion 9 : 16/08/2009 at 11:14 PM9

  moonoi - I've never been in hiding and I've always said that the WOD was wrong but necessary because of the situation.
  
  You forget that this is Thailand and you put western values on an Asian culture. While the killings were not legal they were condoned to solve a huge problem. A problem that has returned BTW to many areas in the North with a vengeance.
  
  I too have sat and talked to people directly involved on many occasions. The roots of the tree travel very deep and wide indeed, and for that reason, I can tell you that no one will ever be charged with any of it.
  
  BTW, it is impossible to receive a fair trial in Thailand for anything.

• moonoi

  Discussion 8 : 16/08/2009 at 11:48 AM8

  hi Ricefield
  finaly you come out of the hiding. these extrajudical killings were a crime. and still are a crime even when the majority of the people in thailand supported it.
  what would you say if your brother wasn't in rehab but had been on the black list and dead?
  I met a guy who is now pushing chairs around on the beach in hua hin. after a couple of beers he told we that he had worked as an informant for those who did the actual killings. he felt guilty. he quit, though he was well payed.
  it's very easy to say shoot them all over. that's fashit talk, i am sory to say so. I understand your feelings, your anger, but anger is no good advisor.
  those who are guilty, arrest them, prosecute them and when necessary let them rot in jail, but not before they get a fair trail.
  but fair trail is a far reach in thailand, so it is a far way from a respectful discussion and democratic behavior. Thailand was never a real democracy. everybody who comes to power thinks the state is a selve-serving discount-shop without a cashier. that were so under the democrats and so itz was under thaksin. but thaksin was more clever than the old bangkok elites, who gave a god damn ... about the peoples sufferings in the north. there Mr. T jumped in. very clever indeed. and with a prospering world economy in the back he was successful, so succesful that he could even hand out some pocket money. and built streets and invented OTOP.
  
  But Thaksin didn't want to share with the old Bkk-elites. that broke him his neck. And Thaksin is for sure not the solution , nor is it PAD or whatever new party is founded today in Thailand. they are all part of the problem . Thailand needs a general discussion about its situation as a whole in context to the world. a kind of "national gathering" of all relevant groups in Thailand, where all matters come on the table and are DISCUSSED and not threatend with guns, weapons, coups, phone ins, whatever. this discussion might run a year or two. who is ruling the country so long? you need an interim- government, actualy thailand has one. This governmaent should call all thai people to name representives of their intersts who come together to discuss all relevant problems in a free and open manner. with a guaranty of free speach, but that is still to learn. now instead of discussing contents there are insults, personal interst instead seeing the progess for the country as a whole, what aslo includes your progess.
  i love thailand, but more i love its people. thailand still has something to give to the world but lost a good part of it over the husstle of mortgage rates and new cars on credit and cheating foreign visitors and investors. it's time that thailand starts to listen again, also from outside. but the first is to listen to each other, to try to understand the motives of the other, your political opponent. and to respect him/her, and to defend him or her if necessary ( I don't like waht you say , but I always will defend your right to say so!). Forget this "loosing face" concept. when something is wrong, its wrong, and it must be said so. how can we learn without doing mistakes? we must be thankful to those who do mistakes, 'cause without them, we couldn't do better.
  The best teachers are those who's pupils make them forgotten.
  Share and rule! But share!
  
  chock dee Krap, Thailand !

• RicefieldRadio

  Discussion 7 : 16/08/2009 at 10:16 AM7

  Bubba - You are so right it's scary.
  
  tony - You are so wrong it's scary too. You obviously did not live in the far north during the War on Drugs or you would know it was universally accepted by the population. There were whole villages that were overrun by drug smugglers and dealers. My brother is in rehab in Mae Chan and I have no sympathy for any drug dealer or smuggler, NONE. Shoot them all it's OK with me.
  
  You also do not understand vote buying, in the North and Northeast the Democrats paid the most for votes. A lot more up to 3 times as much and couldn't win a seat for it. What you class as vote buying is considered a gift to listen to the contestant in the election, it does NOT change anyones mind as to who they will vote for. They collect from all parties, that is something those who yell Thaksin bought all his votes do not understand.
  
  In a free election if Thaksin's side didn't give out a penny they would win, it's not the money, it's the fact Thaksin made good on his promises to the poor and underprivileged, something no one else had ever done. That's the Thaksin draw, keeping his word to the poor and they still support him because of it. They don't care if he got rich, he made good, their lives improved and that endeared him to the poor.

• tony

  Discussion 6 : 15/08/2009 at 12:56 PM6

  Been There, sorry to say but i don't think killing over 2,000 people in the fight against drugs is right, i don't think rushing the opening of suvarnibumi was right, (this airport is a joke) I don't think not paying taxes on the sale of shin satellite is right. He was not democratically elected, he bought his way in just like all other politicians, the only thing that made him so popular with the farmers was that he paid more for their votes,(500 to a 1000 bht compared to 200).

• Bubba

  Discussion 5 : 15/08/2009 at 12:23 PM5

  Ben There discussion #4: Ben you write:
  
  "A vote at the end of term would have taken care of the problem".
  
  I am unsure what exactly you mean because of the wording within the context of your comment.
  
  In September 2006 the military took over, overthrowing an elected government.
  
  Then their appointed government set up new elections, in a way so as to favor the parties the military wanted to see elected, in the meantime sidelining and banning hundred of politicians from the overthrown government.
  
  The military even sent soldiers to the polling station in Isan and the north to "help" voters.
  
  They lost. Again the same political parties came to power.
  
  Then the PAD helped and pressured to overthrow two more consecutive government, one by a court declaring the PM to have broken the law by participating in a TV cooking show.
  
  After that the PAD took over the airport, the military refused to support the government and again, partly due to court intervention the government was overthrown.
  
  Then the democratic, who were on the backs of the PAD formed a coalition government with renegades from the previous government that they bought votes from by promising them high government positions (talk about vote buying!) And PAD people also received their rewards for having helped the democrats into power.
  
  So the thing is, every time a government comes into power at "the end of a period" it is simply overthrown.
  
  My hope is somehow somebody will step in one day and not sanction what the military does again and again but limit their power once and for all.
  
  The consequences of not doing so is seeing the country love more and more toward oppression of democratic rights and freedoms.
  
  It is far too late now to simply prevent the UDD from going through with this petition. If that succeeds the consequent divisions will risk engendering confrontations on a larger scale than before.
  
  And you might as well throw democracy out the window because Thailand does not have a fair enough distribution of wealth to convince the poor and near-poor to vote otherwise than they do.
  
  Oh yes, there is always the PAD proposal of having only 30% of government elected. Talk about a transparent farce. They call themselves the guardians of democracy and then want to sideline the entire part of the population that would not vote for them.
  
  Sad times ahead for Thailand I am afraid...

• Ben There

  Discussion 4 : 15/08/2009 at 09:13 AM4

  Look at the big picture here. It may include Taksin unfortunately but the fact is what it is. Elitist, military rulers, and special interest groups have taken over the government in the absence of the popular vote. A vote at the end of term would have taken care of the problem in a more just way. Now problems abound and everyone blames Taksin to hide the real trouble makers. His name is being used to fight against dictatorship and manipulated overthrow of a democratically elected government. He himself is a dead dog politically. What he did may have been wrong but he did do a few things right. Learn to seperate the good from the bad and deal with them individually. Is he a crook? Yes! Is he all bad? No! Maybe if the yellow shirts had been nicer to the rural masses all along they would find more friends and less confrontation.

• RicefieldRadio

  Discussion 3 : 15/08/2009 at 04:09 AM3

  It's not surprising that the same group supported the coup.
  
  While you can say what you want about Thaksin the people kept voting him into power until the military wrenched power from his hands. If there was an election tomorrow he or his party would win again. Why because the majority of the people in the country support him.
  
  It's simple really, but many educated people, many who have never even met a farmer or anyone poor, think they know better than the majority. Isn't that exactly what they did't like about Thaksin - A small group trying to run the country.

• Aek

  Discussion 2 : 15/08/2009 at 03:22 AM2

  Here we go again. Why is it such a big deal for this legal, verbal and political wrangling to go on? In a democracy, albeit a farce or for a better term psuedo-democracy that we have at present in Thailand, people have freedom of speech and they can voice their concerns and their demands, just like the UDD or the PAD or the DEMOCRATS or whichever party or group of people decide to do so. His Majesty the King is the King of all Thais not just one group or of one half of society. I see no problem in the UDD forwarding their petition. Whether it is accepted or whether it is granted or not is a different matter.
  
  YES, it is obvious that Thaksin is so desperate that he cannnot sit still nor get any sleep thereby he will come up with any and all sorts of ways to clear his name, to get back some semblance of respect that he has been pouting that he deserves. People like him lose touch with reality and are in denial. The TRUTH is too hard for them to face up to.
  
  TALK IS CHEAP, RESPECT IS EARNED and this guy, like so many former and present crooked politicians, are blinded to the TRUTH. Money talks and money buys votes, and money is being funneled to his supporters to keep up their daily propoganda that has created such a deep rift and damaged Thailand in more ways than one. Yet his ego and his wounded pride will not let him rest. That's what ill gotten gain does to people like Thaksin and why the love of money is the root of all evil.

• Nahm roo

  Discussion 1 : 14/08/2009 at 10:06 PM1

  Thaksin is driving a wedge between the people to gain his pardon.. If this is done then it condones everything he has done that was wrong.. He will again regain power and make his own kingdom.. He has claimed that he has no part in the Pardon request, yet he calls to rally his people and co-ordinates their efforts..