The PAD's Blockade of Government House and Parliament

[bella]

Hello All,

Thank you K.Rahat for starting this thread.

To Minnie: From my reading, all I can say to make you understand "Bella" more is that the problem is in the foundation of the value system going on deep down in these PAD sympathizers. It tends to make them quite ignorant and naive to more worldly issues, thoughts, beliefs etc.... and tends to make them mix things up a bit.

Mind note: Sonthi is mad at Thaksin for personal issues.... sth about borrowing money.... So he saves his arse daily with the excuse of protesting. Anybody got the details....?? We need to spread the word!

As children, we must learn to socialize, democratically in our preschools and kindergartens. Getting in line, saying sorry, accepting the majority vote for the room monitor. But, sadly here... many people don't get in line. (Some)People rush... there are very few rules obeyed on the streets.... because they're worried about "winning". Hmm..... winning? Please, mind you, I do NOT mean everyone! There are a many decent lot of us around!!!

So, you see, Minnie, that all this nonsense that has been instilled from childhood has created a bunch of naive, stubborn, narrow-minded dudes. They just can't seem to comprehend some obvious things. They need to learn World History in school .... they have to participate in debates... They have to learn how to filter fact, opinion, and fiction.... I have Thai students from some of the best schools here..... they don't learn World History :( They need to learn that Sonthi is following the example of Hitler's way of manipulating masses with his propaganda.

Additionally, very few do their homework before believing things and opening their mouths...

Firstly, I think that I am in the wrong blog. This is full of foreigner that are arguing without knowing what Thailand is really is? Why you think KFC, MacDonald, Pizza Hut customized some food to suit thai people? Because this is Thailand? I am not saying that PAD is good and Taksin is bad, because I am not in any side. I won't vote for Chamlong or Apisit even if they get Taksin down. But I agree that Taksin has abused his power, corrupt the country and should come back to face charges. He thinks this court is not fair and he is not coming back. As someone in this blog asked before what is fair? Fair or not fair you have to come back and fight for your innocense. Not wait until your brother in law comes to power to change things for you. The reason I came into this blog is to make a lot of foreigners understand why thai people do not like Taksin. It seems like I am talking to a bunch of xxxx foreigners. Thai students do learn World History. But they are not good in expressing themselves in English. Thai students are shy to express themselves and very quiet especially to foreigners. But it's such a pitty that the foreigners don't understand and think they are dumb. When actually they are tought by farang from Kao San that doesn't have a degree but hired because he or she has blond hair. Who is dumber? And here Bubon is calling Thais as a bunch of naive, stubborn and narrow minded when he didn't even know the basic characters of Thai students. Wow... look who is talking? I am really sad for your students to have a teacher like you.

I look at two sides of the coin. I am not on PAD side and I am not saying PAD is correct. I think the PAD is too aggressive and is fighting by hitting their head on the wall. Not smart enough. But Taksin definately did as what he has been accused and the PPP should disolve the parliament to clear the air and stop the citizens to have doubts on who is the puppet coming out again.

I don't want to be rude as this is not the usual behavior of Thai people. But if you don't like the country, you can turn around and follow the foot print back to where you came from. This should not be an excuse that you are lost and can't find your way back home.

[kalyaja]

Bella, don't you get defensive and turn nasty. That's right it's not Thai custom, to be nasty and rude. But If you want to write blog in English language newspaper like BP, you must take heart and be prepared to hear different opinion from yours from foreigners or expat. They may or maynot be familiar with Thai politics. But I'm sure lots of them live in Thailand for a long time. It can't help but most if not all are siding with the government. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out why? And you also know the answer. Because the current government is elected by majority of Thai voters. It is the legitimate government which must be accepted by all political parties, and above all, must accept Thai people's will to choose. That's the bottom line and that's all there is. If the government back down and relent to PAD's demand, it would mean the end of democracy. In foreigners' and most westerners' eyes, PAD is demagogue, anti-democracy, trouble makers party. You don't like what they say about PAD, it's your choosing. But you can't stop them from writing against PAD or you kindly ask them to turn around and get out of Thailand because you disagree with them. That's not Thai hospitality.

[Minnie]

Ohhh Bella, I may be a farang, but I along with my Thai business partner of 15 yrs and the small group of Thai workers we used to employ and work with gave a lot of our soul, time and money to Thailand...you do not have to be of blood to love something or someone just the same way that an adoptive parent can love an adopted child.
To allude to say that I do not understand the Thai culture, is ludicrous.
I said earlier..."Thai workers we used to employ"...that's because since the coup and the shennanegings of the PAD we have had to reduced our head count, make workers redundant...I do not need to be Thai to understand the consequences and repercussions of our decision and the effect that it will have on those families by having one less person working...I just wish my Thai partner was hear to write to you in Thai. You sound as if you are still very young Bella, I too was very emotive and highly strung when I was young...I began to learn that the world is not black and white

[Rahat]

Bella,

not everyone here is a farang na krub! the person who started this thread is a thai student (me) ! I respect your opinions, however i think perhaps you need to understand more why i started this thread. as you can see from the title, i wanted it to be a place where people can share their views about what the PAD has been doing. you seem to agree that they have gone too far, like most others in here. unlike you i dont think that farangs dont understand the thai situation well enough; i think some of them understand it even better, you know why? Because other cultures and societies have gone through what we are going through right now. some of them come from societies that have faced this kind of struggle before, even if in a different context. there is no need to be so rude to tell them that they should stop giving their ideas about it if they dont understand. some of their ideas happen to be the same ideas many many other thais have, should those thais get out too? or shouldnt the PAD be the ones to get out if they are causing so many problems to the nation?. The foreigners are not so ignorant that they think thaksin is innocent; come on, if he was innocent why did he run away? because he did not have faith in the thai courts. i am trying to have faith right now but it is hard! it is hard when people who have done so much damage to the country like the PAD leaders are allowed to walk out of court without even having to pay bail? does this mean if UDD or some group does the same thing it is ok? this is the problem many people are trying to ask now krub bella. it is not innocent or guilty thaksin is. at least they froze his assets (some of it). and please understand that even if they change the constitution now, it will NOT change the charges against thaksin because what he was charged for were NOT constitutional crimes, but criminal matters under the penal code and other statutes. again this is something the PAD brainwash their followers with, that if the constitution is changed, thaksin will be innocent. this is how selfish the PAD are, they would rather spread lies and bring down the whole nation than accept the fact that less than half of thailand believe in them. if they wanted political change, why not set up their own party, and if so many people love them, they can enter parliament and change the constitution themselves?

personally, i think a group like the PAD should exist, because they can act like a watchdog on the government, something our opposition party seems so lousy at doing. however, they must behave RESPONSIBLY; they must not do stupid stupid things like take over NBT, gov house, take parliament hostage, close ports and airports. when they do that they are taking the welfare of the COUNTRY hostage for their own political agenda, and whether you farang, thai, kaek, whatever, that is NOT OK! anyways, thanks for your input and keep it coming

Rahat

[bubon]

This is a wonderful place for expressing different thoughts, and different belief systems... but still, we must all be able to accept others' responses and ideas. (That's where debates come in handy as a youngster.) I smile at Bella's ability in generalizing and categorizing issues... So you think only Thai teachers should be highly respected and all English teachers be sent back to Kao Sarn? *grin* If you knew WHAT a good teacher did, and is obligated to do, to create a quality student, equipped with a strong immune value system, you would have probably understood what I was talking about.

Like K.Rahat I AM THAI, BELLA!!! HELLO!??!?!? Ha! And I can believe and respect all opinions.... but the PAD have gone too far.... they are *USING* and *MANIPULATING* the naive, the ignorant, and the ones full of hatred (that they have installed through brainwashing methods) to fulfill one after another of their illusive goals. And by the way, they are on the lawn of the Gov't House, munching up 30,000 boxes of rice a day.

Who cares if they protest................. PEACEFULLY AND UNDER THE LAW.............. that would have definitely made them more sacred and understandable. But constantly threatening the well-being of the greater number of peaceful people, with their poor strategical plans of moves, is ridiculous.

I eat that same rice. From our farmers. From our farmers who have EVERY right to vote. I can't stand the idea of discrimination and racism against our own backbone.

[JustBe]

It boils down to what the majority of the thai people( not the elite or bangkok people) really wants.

The farangs can say whatever they want or suggest all sort of political system for thai, but at end of the day, thai people is going to reap what they sow, the farangs can leave the country anytime at any sign of trouble ahead.

What the PAD currently doing isn't quite right as it will set a very bad model for the future political players. It's pretty similar to the military coup and it has proven that it can't really solved the whole problem. Just look at phillipine.

The only way out is to properly groom the country and raise the education level of the mass. Democracy only thrive and in balance once the mass has the necessary wisdom and resources.

[bubon]

Bella quoted:
"..Thai students do learn World History. But they are not good in expressing themselves in English. Thai students are shy to express themselves and very quiet especially to foreigners. But it's such a pitty that the foreigners don't understand and think they are dumb. When actually they are tought by farang from Kao San that doesn't have a degree but hired because he or she has blond hair. Who is dumber? And here Bubon is calling Thais as a bunch of naive, stubborn and narrow minded when he didn't even know the basic characters of Thai students. Wow... look who is talking? I am really sad for your students to have a teacher like you..."

Wow, lots of spelling mistakes, ah well.... anyway.... that's what the educational and social system here lacks...... the appraisal of students, no matter what your IQ. NO decent teacher would EVER think a student just plain DUMB, that's absurd..... that's the character of the old fashioned Thai teacher you have probably run into throughout your childhood. Sad. The question is WHY? Why are the students scared of their teachers? Don't say respect.... respect to me is "speak up!" Children need the chance to express themselves earlier in life, so that they know how to correctly handle and respond to society later in life... on their own, with or without support. I feel sorry for my students too.... that's probably why they are leaving the Thai schools for Int'l schools, and then in turn leaving me for schools abroad. Godspeed.

I believe that the lack of opportunity in creatively expressing themselves as a youngster has led to these people having the time of their life on the Gov't House's lawn. Skipping work, shouting their lungs out, worshipping and defending their mob leaders.... protesting, socializing, playing cowboys and Indians, earning social acceptance and status between peers...... it all should have happened in their adolescent years.

[SARDINES]

Hi Bella,

I am also a Thai National and I am also appalled by the doings of the PAD. I have disagreed with many of the PAD's views in the past but have always respected their rights and also did feel that they were an important group who could even the playing field a bit in government to help keep in check as a "watchdog" group since the PPP and its coalition parties form a much larger majority.

A lot of times I'm at odds at what some of the foreigners and expats views on our political situation which I can't blame them due to lack of information. They might not have enough sources of data other than the BP and Nation to understand the situation and, unfortunately again, both these news agencies have failed in their duty to be unbiassed and reported the "louder minority's view" vs. the "silent majority". I guess the silent majority's view doesn't sell as many newspapers.?.? However, on this occasion, I do agree with the expats on this issue and believe that PAD have overstepped the boundaries of lawful protests which are protected by the constitution.

The PAD has evolved (unfortunately) into some sort of political force of anti-democatic values and a loud minority who is trying to impose their own ideals on the vast silent majority. How can a group call themselves a "Peoples' Alliance for Democracy" when the principles that they are proposing for or so much against the principles of democracy?

- They have made clear that if new elections are held and the majority of Thais still elect the PPP, they will continue to protest for the fall of the government... democracy?
- They want 50% appointed MP's (originally 70%) instead of MP's elected by the people... democracy? This is funny because it is exactly what the communist party of China have forced on HK and the pro-democracy citizens their are fighting for the rights that PAD want to impose.

SARDINES (...a thai favorite food)

[bella]

My apology to Boubon if I have insulted him to follow his footprint back to where he came from. However, I would like many of you to know my following points.

1) Thailand can not always be a happy place for you. We have our problems much like many countries as Taiwan as the Green and Blue. Even if you do not agree with the PAD but you could understand why they are doing it right?

2) Most of you only understand one thing Democracy and the majority of the vote. Then you have to try to understand why is there still problems. Could there be something wrong with the system? If you tell me no, then I have nothing to say to you. FYI, the parliament member is a problem when most of the members are Taksin people. Yeah, keep on having an election and you will come out with the same result. Does that tell you there is a problem? Maybe tossing a dice could make a difference.

3) Taksin gave medical care to the upcountry people and education and he went to buy all the hospital and schools. The people end up paying 30 baht to his hospital and schools and the rest is paid by the government to his hospital and schools. The new airport, Taksin's suggestion. Before it was built, his family went to buy all the roads and lands around that area so when the new airport is opened, their estates will go up. He discredited our ////// and the royal family. Well, tell you what all these are rumors but not in newpapers. Don't even think about reading this in international newspapers. This I can't tell you how true is it as I don't know myself as it's rumors. But I believe about him waiving the tax when he sold AIS to Singapore because I have a long time friend that works in AIS and she said it's true.

So you know why the PAD are against him? Because Taksin is going to buy the whole Thailand. Yes, Sonthi saw how powerful Taksin was so he told Taksin to take up his business which is loosing money. But Taksin didn't want to help. Then he thought that Taksin is only choosing what will make money for him. In another words, if Taksin is a nice man, he will help the weak recover not just buying healthy business that has a long run. That is the reason why the PADs are sitting eating lunch boxes instead of sitting in soi Cowboy.

As I mentioned that all these are rumors. And I don't know how true it is but I believe the AIS case. The PADs are not smart but I believe that they do love the country. They probably see that Taksin is going to rule over this country in the long run. I think it's the change that the PAD and many thais are facing. I am okay with changes. I think things happens for a reason. But before the result of the change, there would be some struggle and the result is what is best for Thailand. Therefore, I think that the PAD mop is okay. Maybe Thailand should still have a monarchy. Or maybe it's time for Thailand to be ruled by PM? And this is what the struggle is all about.

One last advise, if you are a foreigners and want to be a good teacher, you have to learn to understand the Thais. Learn how to have them express their thoughts to you. It's an art you know. But many of you wonder why aren't you Mercedes Benz without knowing what phase we are in and what we have to go through to become Mercedes Benz one day.

[Rahat]

I noticed that some people believe in some conspiracy that the protestors were shot at with some form of explosives. i thought this was absurd when i first heard it (the number of dead would be MUCH higher if a grenade or explosive was fired from the police!) but i'm glad that an investigation has been started. the following is from the nation website. link is on the bottom. apparently thai police, who have never used the teargas in 20 years, didnt know that they're supposed to shoot the teargas UP and NOT directly at the people! idiots. still, they must compensate the victims and their families. again, in my opinion, the house should not be dissolved nor should the PM resign because the police were doing their job, despite apparently not doing it very well! the issue must be broken down into TWO: 1. dispersing the protestors ( i agree with, they have no right to hijack parliament) and 2. the WAY the police used force (i dont agree with the way the police did this, should have had more training and used US imported teargas not cheap chinese-made ones). hope others agree with me and understand the point i am trying to make! here's the report:

Angkana dies from impact of tear gas : Dr Pornthip
Angkana Pradubpanya-avut died from the impact of tear gas canister fired by the police to disperse antigovernment protesters last week, Forensic expert Khunying Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand said Monday.


Dr Pornthip said she examined photos of body of Angkana before reaching this conclusion.

"The tear gas struck Angkana at the chest before exploding a second after. There will be no more investigation into the type of the weapons used in the incident."

"It is clearly showed that the injuries and death were caused by weapons police used," she said.

Dr Pornthip, who is also the director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science Thailand, said that police who used the tear gas may not know proper ways of shooting the tear gas which should be fired into the air not at people.

Police, on the other hand, claimed they used tear gas to disperse the protesters and dismissed suggestion that a gas canister fired by them was strong enough to kill a person.

There have been suggestions from many observers that some sort of explosives, not the tear gas caniste, may have killed Angkana.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10 ... 085915.php