Freedom of speech and right to reply

[SirCon]

I personally have no trouble with those who are in control of this board. In the short time I have been a member, it seems to me that there really aren't too many people posting in this forum. In fact, it is mainly the same 8 or 9 people. Indeed, looking at the new posts board you can see one or two names over and over. Some evenings it is the same name 15 or more times, in a row. And you can go from one topic to another and after a while it seems like the the posters really don't care what the topic is, they just post anything and boast about how many posts they have made. Is that the goal - the total number of posts?

So when new people make a post they don't return in my opinion because they are immediately hit with some comment that is intended to berate them or 'correct' them, not discuss. New people come on the board because for whatever reason they have something to say and are not here just to say something.

Bottom line to me is two-fold: that new members are being driven away - not by the WM, and secondly, many members of this board need to be on a chat screen like Skype because the concept of a 'major' newspaper forum (which I assume is to discuss issue and news centered in this area, internationally, and also topics such as 'living here', where the best restaurants are, immigration issues, etc.) really does not fit what you are wanting to do here.

Personally, I have lots of comments to make about the news and other issues here. I don't because I honestly feel I will get one or two direct replies and by the end of the first page the comments marginally relate to the original topic and by the third page you can't even tell what the topic is anymore.

Are you suggesting that this forum is equivalent to a bunch of chaps drinking in a Thai bar ?

[stilljustbrowsing]

SJB,
And just what part of your last post was ON topic? Waiting to hear?

All of it, in my oppinion, regarding freedom of speech and right to reply. Or am I missing something?

[Ink]

Hello Puzzled,

Agree that new members do post for a reason. They also go away for a reason. But I don’t think it is entirely true that reason is necessarily because they are berated for having a different opinion. It’s more likely the case that in most instances, one gets a response to a comment in the same or similar spirit that comment is made. Obviously, there are enthusiastic discussions here. Some are even more appropriate to refer to as “heated arguments”. Some even get personal and abusive. It is mostly this personal and abusive part that play more of a role in posts being deleted or posters (old and new) going away, regardless whether or not it is voluntary.

You mentioned you’ve been a member for a short time. I’ve been contributing to this forum (not a lot, but on a regular basis) and reading it for almost a year and an half and I must say that in all that time, posters do come and go. Some stay longer than others and the group of “regulars” do change. I suspect this to be the case with most (if not all) similar venues, irrespective of the degree of berating that is being done, or even the lack of it. I also expect this to continue to be the case and don’t see it as being out of the ordinary and as such, not much of an issue.

I am not sure the number of “regular” posters implies anything beyond just that. It’s the number of readers to each topic that should be more of an interest. If you have lots of comments to make on different issues, by all mean, please share. Even if the discuss heads off topic a bit, I don’t think the essence of any opening post gets lost. As long as the thread remains, readers can always refer back to what the original post is all about. I do this, and often.

I do agree that the concept of a major newspaper forum discussing regional topics internationally is perhaps not going where it could. But both your statement and my agreement are assuming we know what direction BKK Post is wanting this to go, or even if there is an intended direction. We do not. What we do know is none of the contributors (you and I included) are prescreened and prequalified to determine suitability to write and offer perspectives. If we were, it would be clear as to what direction is intended for this forum. Since we are not, we get a mixed bag of posters. I actually appreciate this as it allows me a more dynamic and wider view of perspectives. At the end of the day, it is my responsibility as to what I want to come away with from all of this.

Welcome to the board.

[puzzled]

Ink, I agree with you and am not so far removed from the reality of the world that comments are going to put me off when I have something to say. However, when I say it, I hope it has something worth the time others take to read it.

SirCon, I am absolutely not suggesting that. However, maybe that is what is needed to appreciate some of the posts which have nothing more than complaints. Wait, maybe that's it. I will try to get a bit drunk tonight after work and see if some of them make more sense!

However, without being too harsh, I think the tone of many of the comments have improved in just the past 24 hours. Perhaps it was the realization or fear that the Nation (where it has been commented on this board, you 'don't have all these rules and can say what you want') went off for a while. Reality check. I have seen censorship of large magnitude in this country, and we have all seen blocked websites, threats of more blocked websites, etc. I distinctly remember the military government of the time considering banning cable television because they did not want the people to see the news about Thailand 'from the outside' and they said it that way, no hidden attitude there! Or the time the the CAT and the Postal Department wanted to ban all e-mail and telephony sites because only they had the authority over international communication. (and that is unfortunately one of the reason I am torn about Taksin, when he opened his telephone company he basically told them to get lost and people no longer were confined to telephone control or a 6-month wait to get a new telephone line. note: I am torn because he went too far with the personal profit-taking.). However, I do not like it when people complain about the BP. I was here in '92 when the BP was censored and so was the other newspaper. The BP printed and left all of the censored stories unprinted. Blank pages, blank sections - to show the people what had happened. Saying nothing in that case was more effective than anything else that could have been done. The Thai people eventually paid and many with their own blood to get things changed. So, I get disappointed, upset, when one of the most important stories becomes boring and people stop wanting answers (containers in the sea) and instead waste so much time with about deleted posts which were probably deleted for the language or verbal abuse.

The government wants to control and there is also a feeling that you can legislate morality in this country. I remember a lunchtime at a school I once worked at part time. The teacher was saying that Thai kids won't eat Thai food anymore and they thought pizzas, hamburgers, and other 'foreign' foods should not be allowed. As I looked down on my free lunch (and it looked horrible), I really wanted that pizza! Self control is the answer - don't take it too far because the real power will react eventually. Giving opinion is fine. Ranting gets you nowhere. Nor does thinking that anyone on this board has some power to give the final verdict in a rather coarse or insipid manner. Even the attitude that somehow you have the authority to tell someone to go to another board and take his 'piss' is wrong. As an American I find that word offensive on a public board, I realize that in Britain this is a common word for public display.

However, I accept that this is a national newspaper and read all over the world as a source of information. It should be respected as such. The choice is either to respect it or just go elsewhere, or join Uncle Willy's Forum of unrelated nonsense and gripes, which I am sure can be found with a little googling.

[BangkokRay]

Edited/deleted by BKK Ray.

[Ian]

If I can add my two satangs worth The analogy of the woman and her computers was a good analogy, blogs and forums have characteristics which are dictated by the members, I mean dictated by their style, rubbish in gets rubbish out. The Nation has a different style of debate to the BP forum, in both cases this difference in style is the result of a different mix of members, both change over time as members drop out or new members join.
Old members might resent these changes as newcomers arrive, new member might resent what they see as too much of a grip by old hands, there is also the factor that new moderators often behave like "new brooms".
Old hands know each other well and can often make comments only understandable amongs themselves, new hands feel excluded by this and resent it. Equally new hands often introduce topics which have already been "talked to death" months ago, this can be equally irritating to old hands.
To use any forum successfully one needs a mixture of tolerance and thick skin plus a sense of humour. Someone called me a retired electrician, why not a retired hippy, soldier, recording engineer, medical technician, or various other things I did in my life? As far as I know retired means ceasing further work, as such I retired as a teacher. So I found this comment funny and with perverse humour pretended not to understand it. We all have defense mechanisms when attacked, so if you attack why protest when defenses are triggered
I think some of the current "new members" are a little bit too self righteous and in the words of this "retired hippy" need to mellow out a bit

[puzzled]

Sorry, but this is not your call. By that I mean to tell others to mellow out a bit is indeed in the realm of the ironical when coming from one of the group being discussed for their outbursts and self-patronization.

The moderators will be the moderators, the new members will be the new members, the old members will be old members (is this based on relevant posts or just wandering responses?), and you and I will in reality just be members whether we have been here 6 months or 6 hours. There is no seniority system in existence except one which may be imagined by some. In fact old or new, we are only members on this board and we can be members within the limits prescribed. That is all the rights we have in somebody else's house. Again, if there is an old boys' network in action, it is self-appointed and has no authority.

What I will say is that if I overstep and if they want to delete my post, it is up to me to reflect on it. I will never groan and gripe ad infinitum. I might re-post in a different way if I feel it is worth it after my self-reflection. I have no authority to tell anybody what to do or not do, but the BP and the moderators do. There is where it ends. I can live with it. I do not have or need to make those calls against the rules or against others. No one is forced to come here. I might disagree, but I don't think posts like 'hey I had a post deleted and it is unfair because (now you won't be able to read my pearl of wisdom)'. And it is posted in several different topics as an introduction to the newest pearl. There was a reason no doubt, live with it. My reaction will not be one of astonishment.

Sorry, I am at work and have no more time to comment (aren't you lucky). I would like to see what you are up to since you currently have about 12 posts on the new comment board in the last two hours. I just don't have that kind of time on my hands day and night. My last few post have been too long winded and completely out of character for me. I guess it is time for me to mellow out - if I, and only I, decide to. Or be deleted if the WM and only the WM decides.

[puzzled]

Don't know what to say. Should I say Yes sir, boss. or just ask if dancing with a broom is your suggestion for socializing, or what? I ain't that lonely.

[Sean Moran]

You ain't lonely and you ain't working neither.

[puzzled]

Nope, just remembered free coffee at Starbuck's next door at 3PM. See ya.