Imposing moral values on others

[paullane]

It is sometimes easy to see who is not a classroom teacher on these issues and even easier to see who hasn't been inside a school for a few years. Nobody is for corporal punishment. But teachers would like to spend more time teaching and less time in crowd control. Yes, in my hometown students for the most part know how to act. I have no explanation for most of the schools in Thailand. It is unfortunate. It is not the teacher. question: Why is one of the most prized pieces of classroom equipment in Thailand a loudspeaker?

And as for your comparison to Africa, I am not interested in discussing every issue. I heard most of the kids don't have a school to attend there and that many couldn't write anyway because the corporal punishment there often involves the loss of a limb by a machete chop. And it is stupid to bring in the eye-poking and head bashing of the 3 Stooges. No, let's not go crazy on our comparisons by generalizing.

Corporal punishment in school should not involve any more than a quick paddle swat to a fully-clothed rear end. And it should not be used until everything else has been exhausted. That point is reached somewhere between 'i don't know what else to do' and the reward of being given a few days off and being sent home for a day or two (which solves nothing unless the parents are supportive). I don't even advocate school involvement with drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes. These students should be given to police authorities. They have broken the law and they and their parents can deal with it. Not me, I teach grammar or maths or whatever. This shoving of all values education and responsibility to the school is ridiculous.

What a truly bizarre post!

On the one hand you suggest reporting offenders to the police and on the other hand you are suggesting it is OK for teachers to break the law and administer CP.

Are you aware it is illegal? Are you really suggesting teachers should break the law?

Its irrelevant whether its right or wrong - its illegal, end of story surely!?

I am not against CP per se. but I am very much against teachers flouting the law of the land.

[jphoto_guy]

Take just one issue: corporal punishment in schools. Mostly not allowed now. And the schools are out of control. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is good. But I do remember the possibility that it could happen was a good deterrent. Nobody in my elementary school back in the dark ages when I was in school ever wanted to be taken to the Principal's office where there was an electric paddling machine. Everybody knew it was there for really bad students even though none of us ever saw it!! Alas, all of those machines are gone now. Now the teachers and the good students suffer as the disruptive students take control.

....true, but yet creative teachers will always find ways of re establishing control of their classrooms despite having a few "bad" apples. I'm one of those types of teachers. Corporal punishment is very out dated.

[MTT]

Yes? Okay. So, instead of praising yourself or condemning others, I would really like to learn what those other methods are. So, please, to all those who say they know a better way, tell us what those long-term solutions are. Not theories please. Please elaborate what works. It seems to be a secret known only by a select few. Oh, and remember, you are not working one-on-one, you are in the middle of a full classroom, mixed mental and psychological abilities, non-elitist school. You have no counselor, you are alone. You also have less than 50 minutes for your solution. Further, you may not send students out of the room. Oh, and I never said the class was out of control, only the select few causing the problems and taking far more than their share of your time. We are all ears polianna the judge and creative jphotoguy.

[paullane]

Why can't you send a kid out of the room? The MoEs instructions on alternative methods are very clear that you CAN.

Thats your start point. Beyond that you use what thousands of others use perfectly well. How come thousands of us teaching here (Thai and foreign) manage to do it? As I said I am NOT anti CP, I am anti criminals working with kids. If you truly believe that CP works then lobby to change the law. I know it doesnt work, if it did it would not be the same few kids getting whacked all the time.

MORE importantly is the effect is has on the GOOD kids. Do you ever consider them when you beat a "bad un"? Why should "good uns" be too scared to go to school? And they are, thousands of them.

As to your comment about "only 50 minutes" - well in my case its 40 and if I spend the first 10 dishing out beatings for not doing homework etc that means the good kids are losing 25% of their valuable learning time.

74% of beatings are for minor offenses, that is way too high. The most common of which are, in order:

1. Not doing homework - sorry but homework is extra curricular and although we all want kids to do it there is no legal obligation on them to do so which means ANY punishment is unwarranted whatever it may be.

2. Getting homework wrong - you cannot force a child to be Einstein. Indeed its more a reflection on the teachers than the child. beating a child for their own inadequacies is ridiculous.

3. Being late for school - hardly the crime of the century and often out of their hands.

4. Incorrect dress code, haircut, hygiene. My job is to educate children. hair style or dirty fingernails makes NO difference to a child's ability to learn.

You didnt respond re your contradictions, report criminal offenses by students but not by their role models seems a very strange philosophy to adhere to.

If a teacher is hitting kids they are are breaking the law and committing a criminal act. If their conscience can cope with that then good luck to them, at least until they are caught and their license removed. A teachers job is to educate children but you cant force them to learn. Anything beyond that is the duty of the parent and even the state but has no place in an institution of learning.

[MTT]

Just as I thought. The items you list are not corporal punishments to me. Those are easy to handle/ignore. I am talking behavior. It is OUR school policy to not send them out of the room, however, most of the foreigners ignore this and out they go. Problem is...go where? I think it annoys the admin to have these problems thrust in their face (isn't that just too bad!) I am not beating the kids. I want them to think I can. To be more accurate, I want them to think the admin can. Period. And no, I do not want to counsel the drug problems any more than I want to be involved with the boy and girl caught in the bathroom together last week. I also am there to teach. The admin and the parents and/or police if necessary can handle it.

[jphoto_guy]

CP is a trigger for serious behaviors. I totally disagree with it's use. I remember one very famous case in Japan where a student became so paranoid of the teacher that he lashed out - not with a fist but with his families sword. It would be the last time this teacher ever taught again. Many such cases exist in China, Korea and Japan. CP can end with deadly consequences....

CP is damaging to students - it is abuse. Simply put. You strike a student then you should expect the same in return.