Methane and Methanol as much cheaper sources

[Rooster]

We all very hearing about ethanol and biodiesel fuses. However, these energy sources are taking away from consumer produces and causing increase prices of consumer produces. Thailand will have to develop policies of multiple energy sources. The new laws need to be passed to require vehicles to be able to use dual fuses or multiple fuse sources with more durable parts/engines and control systems.
The technologies existed today for the production of methane gas and methanol. Methanol can be produce from wastes and cellular by products of plants. As for methane gas, 65 million people in Thailand do produce lot of personal wastes beside those agricultural animals. Thai R & D will have to develop the future catalyses for making unlimited supply of these methane gas and methanol. These two technologies are within the reach of Thailand. And very suitalbe for the rural areas and people who are living by the efficient economy or Buddha way of living.

[Rooster]

http://www.methanol.org/pdf/BlackLiquor_MeOH.pdf

http://www.uidaho.edu/bioenergy/biodieselED/publication/01.pdf

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.nl.html?pid=22756

http://www.iags.org/methanol.htm

http://www.methanol.org/pdf/ZSWMethanolCycle.pdf

http://www.chemlink.com.au/methanol.htm

http://www-airs.jpl.nasa.gov/Products/Methane/

http://www.science.siu.edu/microbiology/micr425/425Notes/10-Methane.html

http://www.uwdiscoveryfarms.org/special/methanepubbw.pdf

http://www.terradaily.com/news/The_Forgotten_Methane_Source.html

[Green Dragon]

Seems like good trend in Thailand. Whereas is some backward nations, people are always getting "red eyes" and have thoughts of "stealing from the other guy"; we'd have thoughts of "how do we get ahead with what's we got".

We talk about LNG being successful in cities in China, even in Kuala Lumpur especially in getting cleaner air. LNG is even supposedly cheaper and very much available.

We already have gasahol, with its potential savings of up to 15% gross imports. NOw LNG could be cheaper, if Busses, light courier trucks starts using it, could we get another 2-3% savings?

We could even produce biomass-gas from our rich natural bio mass.

We have to categorized our vehicular fleets, we have CARs, TRUCKs, BUSSES, COURIER VANs, MOTORCYCLEs, TUG BOATS, AEROPLANES, SHIPS, POWER PLANTS etc.

Reworking the entire chain would help us save forex, improve our technical knowhow (you never know, we can use Myanmar low cost labour to produce cheap vehicles)

What are the options?

Green DRagon

[Green Dragon]

Because Malaya is rich is energy, from hydroelectric, gas, and crude oil. we even have palm oil which could, although unlikely, to be used for fuel.

Thailand has weakness, it's a agri based economy with a slowly strengthening manufacturing base. It needs to import fuel...

Remember, Japan progressed based on "saving space", "saving on resources" platform.

Thailand could be centre of such industry, likely high tech. Fuel enhancement, engine development....lots of scientist needed.

Or you want to be CONNED by Dutch-European wanting THAILAND people to be stupid, poor and scared!

Green Dragon


note: Be independent, Thailand can do it too!

[spiritrace]

Green, you are soooooo right! Methane can be produced in many different ways.... from the simple tank in a tank to hi-tek for mass production....Just raw sewage alone would off set dependance on foreign sourses of gas. When I see sewage I see "money" sitting there doing nothing.

[Rooster2012]

Thailand can not depend on the opinions and complicated technologies from the developed countries where they are pushing for hydrogen fuel cells and etc.. These new technologies are for sell and export to the developing countries. Hydrogen fuel cells and other energy-adding-on technologies are insufficient technologies have net negative energy gain.

[stilljustbrowsing]

Whilst I agree we need to change our power resourses to a more environmentaly friendly basis, what people don't seem to know is that if you take your car that has been designed to operate on fossil fuels and "convert" it to run on the new gasses available, the engine will die within about five years!

Why? There are additives in the (petrolium based) fuels that lubricate the valves and valve guides that are not pressent in the new fuels (gasses), therefore your engine will "die", how much will it cost to replace all these engines? Both at a technological level for the future, and a practical level now?

[paulpaul]

Collecting methane gas from the septic tank of every home and business would not only generate energy but could also reduce pollution problems in the home and general environment.
U-traps for preventing sewage gas venting through the drains and back into the bathroom are basically never fitted to shower drains throughout Asia. This results in a terrible smell in the bathroom and home and it is very bad for the occupants.
Hydrogen sulfide kills ones sense of smell so you don't smell it while you sleep and you wake up in the morning with headaches, nausea and dizziness.
Allowing the waste to ferment in a tank before passing out is like a primary treatment reducing its polluting effects. So collecting methane has benefits for your health and our environment as well as generating a useful gas for cooking or generating electricity.

[hawaiiman]

The idea of collecting sewage gas sounds good, but unfortunately in practice not a simple task. When biogas is concentrated, it is highly explosive if allowed to contain even a small percentage of oxygen. In order to use biogas, hydrogen sulphide must also be scrubbed out. Domestic biogas production/usage has proved to be practical only if the system producing it is entirely purpose built. Even then a major limitation is the difficulty of storage.
I think installation of "p-traps" as they are called in the states and external vent pipes, are important and relatively simple ideas to incorporate into new construction. As so many existing buildings are slab built and have at least one drain pipe built into the existing slab, I don't see widespread retro-fitting happening any time soon.