Dowery

RE: RE: Dowery

Postby don on Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:58 pm

zemran,
thank you for explaining this dowery system to me. now its jus finding the funds, let me ask your opinion, i feel i should have this girl move on, theres no way i can come up with that kind of money, i live from check to check, and i am not about to embarrass myself or insult this family, i dont want to give her up at all, ive looked a lifetime for one like this, but when we started to talk and get to know one another i had no idea the culture and custom and dowey system, just looking for your opinion zemran
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don
 

RE: Dowery

Postby looby on Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:01 am

Are you kidding - 2 millions! That's such a rip-off ( Did your fiance tell you to give the amount? ). When I got married a year ago my dowery was $4,999 with an engagement ring, and that was plenty. We did it to make my parents happy, and because of the tradition. I'm from a very good family with post-grad degree, and I don't think all of these matter as long as you truely love each other. You are not paying her to be your wife, are you? I would be more cautious about the situation. Anyway it's your life, if you are happy with it!
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RE: RE: Dowery

Postby luang on Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:23 am

Dowery, it is like an Diamond engament ring. A sign of love and respect.

If not it...It is just a matter of how much you want to buy her for, and how much the family feels you can be taken for.

What do you think a Thai man would concider acceptable to give or if you where Thai what would they expect?

If you can afford it then you have the means to prove your finacial status, if you pay more you prove you what you both are,
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RE: RE: Dowery

Postby Zemran on Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:29 pm

It is up to you to decide what you want to pay. It is fair to refuse to pay anything but you must accept that she may leave you. If she does leave then how real was the relationship anyway. If you do refuse, how fair are you being to her and her family. I think refusing is like telling a western girl she cannot wear a white dress. I did refuse at first and everything was going to go ahead although I knew my fiance was shy about this in front of the family. I then negotiated a settlement that suited all of us. I did put money on the table and everyone was happy.

I do not know your situation or hers but I doubt that you would be causing offence if you put at least 100,000 on the table. This is based on a rather simplistic opinion that if she is worth more then you would have been made more aware of the background to all this. I think that a family with a high educational background are better at explaining their own culture than I am. If you can make it more then you will make your wife happy even if you have already agreed what the money is to be used for. You should do something for the family. You are stepping into their world but that does not mean that they should ignore the fact that she is stepping into yours. When I went through this and kept getting told that "it is our culture" I kept pointing out that I think this is fine but why should my culture be forgotten. I come from a culture where the girls family pay for everything at a wedding!!! My wedding cost over 100,000 and I had to swallow that so every time someone tried to make me feel mean I offered to let her family pay for the wedding.
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RE: Dowery

Postby RichardO on Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:07 pm

When I married my Thai wife I paid a 20,000 Baht dowery plus all the food booze the wedding guests could eat and drink.

A 2 million Baht dowery would be for a rich family girl of high social status, like a super star or a generals daughter. In many cases, doweries of this much are also given back to the couple if the parents are well off. The dowery is suppose to show that you are well intended and can support their daughter to a standard that the parents can accept. It's not suppose to be meant as a sale of their daughter, although that is what is would seem to foreigners, including myself.

Love can be vary blinding and most of the time you wont listen to advice. So all I will say is Be Careful and get to sign a pre-marital agreement. If she really loves she will sign it. Mine did and we are very happy together now for 5 years with a 3 year old girl.

Good luck
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RE: Dowery

Postby tuti on Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:11 pm

hi i'm a thai woman , actually I 'm not sure I can understand all of things that you discuss in this forum so clear . I just would like to tell you about everything is up to you decide but if you would like to know about dowery to marry with thai girl or pay money or whatever you would like to call , in my opinion , I'm a thai woman so I will proud if someone asked me for marry and give money to my family we don't care about it's more or less it's just culture . I remember when i was child I laugh with culture of some country (i'm sorry about this too) because woman must pay money to man for beg him marry her , I think it's nonsense because I'm not familiar about this culture and thai people we think about woman have more value than man ,so she should not give money to him but he must give money to her family if he want her to be his wife , althrough it's their culture but I think I will not marry with any guy if I have to pay money to marry me , so if you feel not comfortable don't pay and don't marry with thai girl , it's culture of us and we respect this too .Anyway 2 million is so expensive , every thai girl I know when they marry it's 100,000 - 200,000 baht and money will be in bank account of the new family , however it's up to your reason , and if you still not understand I think it like someone talk about diamond ring , why western man give diamond ring to her , it's show how much your love too , and about number of 499,999 because thai think about number "9" is good number it's mean move on and good luck , so hope you have good luck too .
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RE: RE: Dowery

Postby Talon on Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:04 am

I have learned alot about the dowery by reading this forum. But what about when the girls mom ask 10 baht of gold for her daughter and a dowery of 200,000 baht? I think the family is middle class.
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RE: RE: Dowery

Postby Rooster on Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:56 pm

Now, I do not know much about your girlfriend's family. This could be a test for your character. If she is educated and family has spend a lot of their wealth glooming her, than this dowery could be the measurement of her values to her family. In Thai culture, gold is the measure of wealth and security. The 10 bahts of gold is equivalent to 10 US troy ounces. Well, gold in the open market is valuing $400 per troy ounce = 16,000 Thai bahts. The 10 bahts of gold would cost 160,000 Thai bahts. These 10 bahts are most likely to be your bride's jewelry's wedding gifts from you like ring, neck-lace, bracelets, belt, and ear rings. These golds are usually your bride property, security, and future family's jewelries. The cash of 200,000 Thai bahts dowery is for show and return to you and your bride later. If her family has outstanding loan from financing her education, than you may not see this money or partially returned to your new family. You just need to have an adult from your family or someone to representing you in the closed door negotiation process. Now, you have to remember that most of these traditions are for a show, a test, work ethic, character, and etc.. You should remember that every Thai parents want their daughter to marry well, which will reflect well to their friends and extended families. Please do not act like egocentric foreigner. Remember, you are representing your family and your race also.
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RE: RE: Dowery

Postby Gina on Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:26 am

I enjoy reading everyone's messages with interest. I'm not speaking for any Thai lady but my own. Marriage is between the two people and if your future wife agrees to marry you because she loves you and wants to spend the rest of her life with you - money should not be the factor. It's difficult for me to understand that many Thai parents expect certain some of monetary compensation from their future son-in-law. Especailly in your case when you live from pay check to pay check. I appreciate that 'Dowery' is a culture thing not only in Thailand but in many other Asian countries as well. But I don't believe it's the 'do' or 'die' situation. When my husband & I got married, 'dowery' had never come into our mind. I marry him because i love him and that should be it. Why spend such a lump sum of money when you can save for the future!! I'm proud of being Thai and I have nothing against my culture but if you have to go bankrupt just because you love someone, I think it's absurb!! My only advice for you is to talk to your future wife about your situation. It's time to find out whether she loves you for what you are and not what you own.
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RE: RE: Dowery

Postby Rooster on Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:13 am

Gina, I do respect your Cinderella story. Life is not perfect. I knew many cases where foreign men prohibited their Thai wives from sending money to their parents. I will tell you of a recent case where a woman from Saraburi was prohibited to send money to her parents and from visiting them for more than 40 years. Her educated death husband prevented her from learning how to drive and learning English. It was sad story to the end where he arranged to liquidate his asset without her knowledge and even giving the lawn mower to his neighbor. His children from his previous marriage and her daughter came down like vultures. Of course in USA, the wife has more right to property and assets than the children or relatives. Before he died, he and the children managed to withdraw over $500,000 in cash from bank accounts. The case is still in progress in the northern US state. She could leave the country until the case is settled. At the mean time, her family members were abled to visit her with short visa restriction. I think it is great that Thai women were are abled to marry foreigners and leaving their country for respective good lives. But I think that there should be some type of prenuptial agreement. I am still think that traditional Thai culture is still best for selecting out bad candidate as my family has experienced from these supportively better foreigners.
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