America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby Bob20000 on Sat May 15, 2010 10:44 pm

This is my first time here. I'm contemplating a trip to Thailand this summer. FYI, I'm an American and I definitely don't fit the "playboy mode."
I know it's been considered fashionable in some circles to look down on America since our involvement in Vietnam back in the 1960s-1970s. Many people also look down on American because of our prominent role in the world's affairs. I think this shows more of a mental laziness on the part of the critic (ie the world has big problems and America is a very powerful country, therefore America must be responsible for the world's problems), than the role of America in the worlds troubles.
It's interesting to me that much of the criticism comes from Europeans who were indirectly responsible for America's rise to global prominence by starting not one but two world wars in the last century. In terms of dominating other countries, Europe, and not America, has a much greater history of keeping foreign countries as colonies.
Let me say that I am fully aware that America has its share of dark events in its history, not the least of which were the oppression of its indigenous peoples and slavery. However, America's redeeming quality is our peoples ability to look at our flaws with our eyes open, and to make changes which more truly reflect the words found in both our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. Furthermore, our country in many ways is a nation of immigrants. Why do so many people from countries around the world want to move to America? Because we look at people in terms of what they can do rather than who they are or where they are from.
Personally, I don't care one way or another whether this t-shirt is on the market. But I would be embarrassed to wear it.
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby nboonpr on Sat May 15, 2010 11:50 pm

Bob20000 wrote:This is my first time here. I'm contemplating a trip to Thailand this summer. FYI, I'm an American and I definitely don't fit the "playboy mode."
I know it's been considered fashionable in some circles to look down on America since our involvement in Vietnam back in the 1960s-1970s. Many people also look down on American because of our prominent role in the world's affairs. I think this shows more of a mental laziness on the part of the critic (ie the world has big problems and America is a very powerful country, therefore America must be responsible for the world's problems), than the role of America in the worlds troubles.
It's interesting to me that much of the criticism comes from Europeans who were indirectly responsible for America's rise to global prominence by starting not one but two world wars in the last century. In terms of dominating other countries, Europe, and not America, has a much greater history of keeping foreign countries as colonies.
Let me say that I am fully aware that America has its share of dark events in its history, not the least of which were the oppression of its indigenous peoples and slavery. However, America's redeeming quality is our peoples ability to look at our flaws with our eyes open, and to make changes which more truly reflect the words found in both our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. Furthermore, our country in many ways is a nation of immigrants. Why do so many people from countries around the world want to move to America? Because we look at people in terms of what they can do rather than who they are or where they are from.
.


Very well said!
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby nboonpr on Sat May 15, 2010 11:54 pm

namprik wrote:I suspect the T-shirt was old stock, a hold over from when GW Bush was president.


Oh! is it because Hussein Obama has bowed and apologized the world and now peole should start to like America? I miss President Bush already! Can't wait for November!
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby zydeco on Sun May 16, 2010 12:02 am

Bob20000 wrote: Why do so many people from countries around the world want to move to America?


These days? To make money or get welfare benefits, most likely.
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby litcraze on Sun May 16, 2010 1:56 pm

It's such a wonder to me to see such an individual of such narrow-mindedness being allowed to board the plane and traipse the globe!!! I believe this very person is beyond 'internationally ignorant.' We probably need to have a new entry in the dictionary for that. If the American Chamber of Commerce of Thailand has to step in on an incident as small as a T-shirt at the Esplanade Mall, then perhaps America shouldn't be doing any business with any nation at all, for that 't-shirt' can be found every where, including on the American soil!!!
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby PeterAndyWolfe on Mon May 17, 2010 6:27 am

From an American "Playboy"
September 11th 2001 - On Vacation in Thailand. 14 hours after watching the towers collapse I and my girlfriend (from Hong Kong), were walking down sukhumvit. Peering inside this little bar, we caught the act of a Thai Rock band. They were playing American rock. The leader was draped in an American flag. It was pretty touching. Kid couldn't have been more then 25. Wasn't very anti-American then.
After 2 relaxing "playboy" weeks in Phuket, (BTW we'd only been dating 3 years), we left Phuket with our pockets lighter by about $4k US, however we took with us memories of one of the finest vacations ever.
In fact, the experience was such that my Son, who was married in 2006, honeymooned in Phuket on my advice. I Don''t think his bride would appreciate referring to her new husband as an "American playboy" while on his honeymoon).
May-June 2009 - I needed dental work. Why pay $12k and sit home? My total trip to Thailand, great dental work, airfare lodging, food and entertainment for TWO was only about $7k (I wasn't feeling very playboyish this time with 8 temp crowns in my mouth and a brought from home woman with me. (the Thai ladies if anything were a bit P.Od that I WASN'T on the market so... get off the stereotyping of American men as playboys -that's about the most irritating thing I have read. I met more lesbian American women In Chaing Mai then I did American men anyway!

Sadly, my Son, his wife, and, I were planning a trip to Koh Samui for the 22nd of May. Sorry, but we've canceled. We've booked for 2 weeks in Playa del Carmen and Isla Majora.
That's about another $8k in revenue that Thailand would have received and I would have been more then happy to have provided them with. The Thai people are about 90% of the reason we keep coming back. I.e. it's the PEOPLE - there are plenty of nice beaches in the world.



Red shirt/Yellow shirt - be damned. I am a tourist plain and simple. American - Ignorant - well some are! I've traveled through Texas where steer horns adorn the hoods of trucks, bankers strut around in stetsons and they name freeways after mentally deficient ex-presidents. There's a whole U.S. STATE filled with idiotic Americans and they travel the world leaving Anti-American sentiment where ever they go. So a lot of Americans ARE clueless. So what?
A Texan probably bullied him at one time and left a bad impression.
There are 30 million Thai. one store owner does not, a national sentiment, make.

If I am boycotting Thailand at the present it's because I want to relax while on vacation - There are great deals right now on Bangkok hotels but wearing a flack jacket to dinner in 90 degree weather just doesn't sound like much fun.
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby Robinbangkok on Mon May 17, 2010 8:03 am

The article about “America Bashing” is interesting but most likely not a valid concern. Interesting though is the correlation of what happened in 2003 versus this situation.

Situation 1: My wife and I were at a friend's home, whom retired and lives in Udon Thani with his Thai wife. He was telling us a story of how he came home and his wife ran to the door and said "Mike, \\ //// you!" with her middle finger extended. He promptly asked her where she learned this and she stated she learned this while observing youths at a shopping mall on Okinawa. He explained the actual meaning and this never occurred again.

Situation 2: I was visiting friends in Si Sa Ket and went to a concert. The band's lead singer was friends with my host and came to the table. I was attempting to speak Thai to the singer, to no avail. In my mind, they spoke English because the songs were in English, incorrect. The singer had no idea what the words meant, she memorized everything.

Situation 3: Go to the language schools; observe how many teach the adult students to memorize. Very few will actually learn the meaning of words, let alone the significance of the body or facial languages associated with some words or phrases.

Bottom Line: This shop is not ignorant or bashing they are selling a shirt. No matter what it takes, they will put the logo on the shirt. On the other hand, to the poster that believes free speech means saying anything, get a grip, and go back to school. Free speech has never meant, "say anything" it means leeway. This free speech thing has morphed into something that was never intended. Free comes with responsibility and responsibility is not cheap.
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby ka1jtz on Mon May 17, 2010 9:55 am

Let's see if I have this correct. It is not appropriate for anyone to use offensive speech or insults with the Thai royal family, right! Certainly that is not appropriate, agreed.

Well, then why is it appropriate speech to use insulting, degrading and demeaning symbols to describe the United States of America? Free speech is not the issue--offensive speech is the issue.

Perhaps all should remember to "do unto another as you would have them do unto you..."

Respectfully submitted.

We pray that the current conflict in Thailand is resolved a quickly as possible for all concerned.
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby djcel on Mon May 24, 2010 12:59 pm

Also, as an American, I'm surprised at the lack of support or even apparent empathy for Gohmer. Although I would not have gone as far as he, I too would have been offended at this t-shirt. I was not a supporter or nor hater of former Pres. Bush but understand that he was not very popular abroad. Thus, I'm not terribly offended when I see the anti-Bush ("Bad Bush" and other tshirts sold in Thailand. I would be offended by such an anti-American tshirt as it was described by Gohmer.

On the flip-side, I also realize that the vendor and many Thai's are likely not actually reading the words. I had a Thai friend who once wore a blouse with a big marijuana leaf printed on the front. I asked her if she knew what the leaf was, and when she replied that she did not and I told her, she literally turned red in the face from embarrassment. Similarly, I doubt the folks who wear the "Che Guevara" really know what he did. :?:

:idea: We as Americans who travel abroad are also responsible for the perception non-Americans have for us. How many have seen an "ugly American" in Thailand or elsewhere abroad? :oops: (Yes, I have seen other foreigners who have also been "bad guests" in Thailand and elsewhere but I don't particularly care about the perception the world has about them; this is about perceptions of America and Americans. No matter what country/culture, people tend to remember those who are very kind and/or those who are a**-holes!! I challenge my countrymen & women to strive to make people remember us and think of America as kind (not loud, obnoxious, etc.).

:cheers:

DJ
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Re: America bashing at Esplanade Mall

Postby Akeab on Mon May 24, 2010 9:07 pm

It is interesting that most of you say you are all for free speech as Americans, but you don't think this person should have it. He has a right to his free speech also. If you agree with them, boycott the mail, if not, go buy the shirt, be a proud American.
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