Permission by Degree?

[Sean Moran]

This subforum is one where I would personally like to hear whether anything has changed since
2006, for at that time, the situation was plain and simple:

Have degree? Have a work permit.
No degree? Have a tourist visa.

I believe I remember reading in the Bangkok Post around a year ago that the MoE had begun a
new system at three different government schools, where the decision on hiring new teachers
was left in the hands of those three experimental schools, which IMHO might have enabled the
individual schools concerned to judge prospective candidates on merit, rather than paperwork
of little relevance to the actual classroom on Monday mornings, but whether there has been any
progress in overcoming this obstacle since then, I have not heard.

With regards employment outside the English teaching industry, I have no knowledge to offer.

[Martinus]

This subforum is one where I would personally like to hear whether anything has changed since
2006, for at that time, the situation was plain and simple:

Have degree? Have a work permit.
No degree? Have a tourist visa.

I believe I remember reading in the Bangkok Post around a year ago that the MoE had begun a
new system at three different government schools, where the decision on hiring new teachers
was left in the hands of those three experimental schools, which IMHO might have enabled the
individual schools concerned to judge prospective candidates on merit, rather than paperwork
of little relevance to the actual classroom on Monday mornings, but whether there has been any
progress in overcoming this obstacle since then, I have not heard.

With regards employment outside the English teaching industry, I have no knowledge to offer.

In teaching yes, in other professions; not always and depending on skill and experience
Example; technicians working for MNC's that come here to start-up a factory have no need for 'diploma's
or degrees' if they have them fine, if not the resume and a preferably long-time employment is good enough.

The above is my experience in exactly that example

[stilljustbrowsing]

I am an English teacher, but I do not teach English!
I come from Liverpool and teach about aircraft maintenance!
my visa and work permit are renewed in Bangkok every year and I do not have to leave the country (ever!) As long as I have work with this company. Still have to do the 90 day thing though, which is ridiculous!
Bring back apprentice-ships, without poeple who know how to do the work, no work will get done!

[Martinus]

I am an English teacher, but I do not teach English!
I come from Liverpool and teach about aircraft maintenance!
my visa and work permit are renewed in Bangkok every year and I do not have to leave the country (ever!) As long as I have work with this company. Still have to do the 90 day thing though, which is ridiculous!
Bring back apprentice-ships, without poeple who know how to do the work, no work will get done!

I agree, easy to do, but for long term working expats it is a little overdoing things...
I renew workpermit every 2-3 year depending on rule changes, have thought about residency but then (funny enough) spend more time on getting re-entry permits than on my bi-annual visa.....and I travel frequently...if not residency would be perfect

In my home country I have the highest education degree. I am allowed to teach at university level. Due to my degree certificate however, because it does not stipulate so in the degree, I am no allowed to teach in Thailand... not that I want to...but just to mention it
Same thing for my CA (certified accountant) included in my degree, not visible so cannot put it on my resume other than in words...

However it is a strange world sometimes....our expat world of rules...

[Martinus]

I hope I made myself clear in my above message... it should be clear I do not have an English teaching degree

[Sean Moran]

Sort of, although I've never heard of an English teaching degree, as such. I'm not the most institutionally knowledgeable bloke but I took it that you acquired a B. Ed. somewhere, or bachelor of arts in education? That must have a positive effect onb your emoloyment prospects in the ESL teaching industry, although it's perhaps more than I remember anyone actually asking for in the job ads I've seen around on ajarn.com and in the Bangkok Post.

The prerequisite I recall being most often stipulated is that applicants can show proof on paper that they have sat around on some campus somewhere for three years. What they spent that three years doing never seemed to be of much significance, as long as they were able to afford to spend three years out of the workforce.

I'd really like to find out how that situation has progressed over the last two years, because teaching without a degree is a real mug's game, so I found out by trial and error. Getting paid at the end of a month is an extra incentive.

[stilljustbrowsing]

I still have my protractor! how many degrees do I have with that?

[alya]

I need to contribute to this endless discussion. The whole teaching with/without a degree discussion is a waste of time. We all know what's going on out there. As for myself, I do have a Master's in TESOL and I work at one of BKK's "supposed" best schools. Since working there however, I've learned first hand that at least ten "teachers" have no background in Education, nor a degree related to Education or to teaching . (I'm sure there are more but those ten have told me themselves.) They do have a TEFL . Three of them have confided in me that they got their TEFL Certificate printed at some place on Khoa San. Two new "teachers" were just hired who have TEFL's, verified, but absolutely no teaching experience whatsoever. In fact, they were both unemployed factory and retail workers who decided to do "the traveling teacher" thing and wound up here. If I were a parent dishing out a lot of Baht for my child's education, I would be appalled at the situations where the teachers don't even come close to the qualifications needed to be a real teacher. But, since this is Thailand, in most cases it's better to have the illusion of competent and qualified teachers than no teacher at all. As to some who are trying to "license" farang teachers, HA!!

[Martinus]

I need to contribute to this endless discussion. The whole teaching with/without a degree discussion is a waste of time. We all know what's going on out there. As for myself, I do have a Master's in TESOL and I work at one of BKK's "supposed" best schools. Since working there however, I've learned first hand that at least ten "teachers" have no background in Education, nor a degree related to Education or to teaching . (I'm sure there are more but those ten have told me themselves.) They do have a TEFL . Three of them have confided in me that they got their TEFL Certificate printed at some place on Khoa San. Two new "teachers" were just hired who have TEFL's, verified, but absolutely no teaching experience whatsoever. In fact, they were both unemployed factory and retail workers who decided to do "the traveling teacher" thing and wound up here. If I were a parent dishing out a lot of Baht for my child's education, I would be appalled at the situations where the teachers don't even come close to the qualifications needed to be a real teacher. But, since this is Thailand, in most cases it's better to have the illusion of competent and qualified teachers than no teacher at all. As to some who are trying to "license" farang teachers, HA!!

Bold statement that teaching is a waste of time in general...... en if you think a topic with 5 messages is 'endless' I would take a re-exam in your masters especially the calculation and maths part of it...
TESOL is not free of its own discussion as I understand it, so I would not flaunt it too much
I agree with your statement on the phony licenses.... but that is a task for immigration that put more efforts in the 90 days reporting even if you own a house...you can blame the people for doing it but they like everybody else try to beat the rules
It would also be a excellent task for the parents, a team that would dedicate to it, it would surely make it more easy to dish out the money.
However my neighbour who is a VP at Abac advised me to let my children attend Thai private schools.....funny?? think so
but easier on the wallet and according him they get a better education and do not have to mingle with the rat pack of Thai high(low)-so's

[Sean Moran]

I need to contribute to this endless discussion. The whole teaching with/without a degree discussion is a waste of time. We all know what's going on out there. As for myself, I do have a Master's in TESOL and I work at one of BKK's "supposed" best schools. Since working there however, I've learned first hand that at least ten "teachers" have no background in Education, nor a degree related to Education or to teaching . (I'm sure there are more but those ten have told me themselves.) They do have a TEFL . Three of them have confided in me that they got their TEFL Certificate printed at some place on Khoa San. Two new "teachers" were just hired who have TEFL's, verified, but absolutely no teaching experience whatsoever. In fact, they were both unemployed factory and retail workers who decided to do "the traveling teacher" thing and wound up here. If I were a parent dishing out a lot of Baht for my child's education, I would be appalled at the situations where the teachers don't even come close to the qualifications needed to be a real teacher. But, since this is Thailand, in most cases it's better to have the illusion of competent and qualified teachers than no teacher at all. As to some who are trying to "license" farang teachers, HA!!

That's about how it ends up in practice, but what I find most non-productive is the double standards that the MoE have some need to enforce where, as you mention about the tourist teacher, anyone with a Khao San Road degree but no experience gets mobbed with offers while the qualified teacher without the paperwork gets the visa run every 28 days of filling in for the certified drunks who don't show up on Monday mornings. It really makes the job a lot harder when you're getting treated as second-class citizens and pushed around from school to school without warning. Regardiong the diffewrent pay scales, that's not so much a financial problem but more of a token gesture in the way of an insult, especially when you get to meet those ones like you mentioned in the teachers' room and listen to their ideas between classes on how to extend a vacation.