Motorcycles: 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke, Long Distance.

[stilljustbrowsing]

The bike was on a main road and had right of way, the car pulled out of a side road, presumably without looking.

[Sean Moran]

On the collision. Sorry to hear about it because it's not good to speak ill of the dead. It's unforunate and it is quite common although the outcome is perhaps more likely to be the reverse. One of Newton's laws? Australia and Thailand both drive on the left side too.

[stilljustbrowsing]

The main road had a 90kph limit, the car did not stop at the junction. Remenber this was in the UK so left hand side of the road, the car was going to turn right.

[prommee_NE]

Hi Sean,

Sorry...I rushed my post...thinking of the bikes I used to ride gave a lttle too much blood to the head...

The 100cc Honda was the CB, a single cylinder 4-stroke which has won a lot of admiration as a strong and reliable 'plodder'. "pistons" was a slip of the fingers thinking of the time the pillion and I replaced a kwaka 250 centre piston on the side of the road. I found a link to it here:
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_cb_100_1973.php

I may have been a little harsh (the Le Mans is an 850cc Moto Guzzi twin)...so used to big bikes that I had the little 100 cc going flat out most of the way...well 250km of it anyway. As for vibration...don't know anyone who gets off a <400cc bike after a 300km+ journey without a numb bum.

Personally, I woud never think of a long journey on a motor bike unless it was at least a 400cc 4-stroke model. I used to favour the twins for this size range...the 4 cylinders are obviously smoother...but I just liked twins anyway. Stay away from the CX-500, I loved them but cam chain problem killed them. For Thailand, long distance on roads, I would try and find an old 400-four...easy to maintain and a true classic. Stay away from kwakas (my all time favourites) because they use shims rather than tappets and therefore require garage maintenance.

If you want reliable, easy to maintain off-road fun and road use then the Suzuki DR250 may suit you.

These are all old bikes, easy to maintain and still provide lots of fun...must be pretty cheap too.

[Sean Moran]

Hi Sean,

Sorry...I rushed my post...thinking of the bikes I used to ride gave a lttle too much blood to the head...

The 100cc Honda was the CB, a single cylinder 4-stroke which has won a lot of admiration as a strong and reliable 'plodder'. "pistons" was a slip of the fingers thinking of the time the pillion and I replaced a kwaka 250 centre piston on the side of the road. I found a link to it here:
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_cb_100_1973.php

I may have been a little harsh (the Le Mans is an 850cc Moto Guzzi twin)...so used to big bikes that I had the little 100 cc going flat out most of the way...well 250km of it anyway. As for vibration...don't know anyone who gets off a <400cc bike after a 300km+ journey without a numb bum.

Personally, I woud never think of a long journey on a motor bike unless it was at least a 400cc 4-stroke model. I used to favour the twins for this size range...the 4 cylinders are obviously smoother...but I just liked twins anyway. Stay away from the CX-500, I loved them but cam chain problem killed them. For Thailand, long distance on roads, I would try and find an old 400-four...easy to maintain and a true classic. Stay away from kwakas (my all time favourites) because they use shims rather than tappets and therefore require garage maintenance.

If you want reliable, easy to maintain off-road fun and road use then the Suzuki DR250 may suit you.

These are all old bikes, easy to maintain and still provide lots of fun...must be pretty cheap too.

No worries at all Prom, and it's good that this old thread got resurrected. My turn to apologise for the delayed reply but for me yesterday just wasn't the time to talk about sacred objects like Hondas! I first started on a horizontally-opposed 4-stroke single QA-50 in 1973. My legs were just long enough to reach the footpegs on tip toes but I couldn't stop and touch the ground unless my Dad was there to grab the bike before it fell over or else I'd line up for the lantana bush and jump off onto the grass and let it crash into that to make it stop. I was the only kid at my kindergarten who knew what a centrifugal clutch was back then! Hondas (jap bikes / jap crap) only started to become popular in Australia around then. My Dad owned the first "Honda Shop" in Perth, opened in 1973. Oh the memories. The CB 100/125. What a dream machine!

The five speed box might have helped it along a little more than the one I had a few years back in Thailand, and that was also a horizontally opposed single (like the CT-90/100 postie bikes that they use here to deliver the mail if they don't like the hillclimbs on bicycles). I'd imagine the CT Hondas might be five-speed too, but I've never ridden one. Either way, I'm still fairly sure that unless it's something like a 4-spd w/overdrive 5th, like a lot of 1970s British cars used, top gear is generally always 1:1 so more gears just means a narrower rev range through the changes. Whether 4-speed or 5-speed, I reckon it would have made no difference in top gear, but can't be certain.

That being the case, I'd say that the 110 km/h high-speed on the CB100 is probably about the equivalent of the Honda Eco I had. I'd try to work on 95 cruising speed with a bit of a run-up down the hills to around 100-105 to reduce the load up the next hill, but it was really revving its guts out by then and if it had been more than two years old it might have been wise to knock 500 rpms off the redline. I wonder how old your sister's bike was? because 4-strokes generally outlive 2-strokes by around two or three times, but maybe a combination of prolonged high-revs and a little oil burning might have snapped a little end which speared the piston, or maybe just so hot it seized? Please don't tell me it was ACTUALLY a 1973 model! That's a vintage - an endangered species!

Many other factors like different diameter rear wheels and sprockets could also make a difference, but the specs from the link seem around what I remember with the standard little Honda. How much would an imported DR250 cost second hand in Thailand?

[stilljustbrowsing]

It appears that there is an element of what would be considered to be "undesirables" here! Good to see.
Noaksy, I think the suspension system you refer to was called "monoshock".
Sean, I met a guy today who has a Kawasaki 175cc, single cylinder bike. It looks like a "chopper" and has a really good seating position for long hauls. The price is 75,000bht on the road.
Moto Guzzi 850LM ======= fantastic machine, a bit slow on acceleration but you don't have to slow down to go round bends!

The five speed box might have helped it along a little more than the one I had a few years back in Thailand, and that was also a horizontally opposed single (like the CT-90/100 postie bikes that they use here to deliver the mail if they don't like the hillclimbs on bicycles).

sorry Sean , but a single is a single and horizontaly opposed means at least two cylinders (BMW, Zundap, Douglas Dragonfly, etc.) or four cylinders as in Aerial Square four or Honda Goldwing. (there is an inherant torque reaction problem with this type of configuration , BTW)

[prommee_NE]

I edited my first post due to dyslexic fingers...XJ500 indeed when I meant XT500...edits shown at bottom of page of course...

SJb,
Just as well the 850LM was a tadge slow on accel...cos the seat was so slippery that a blip of the throttle could lose an unwary pillion!

Sean,
I had a look at used bike sales in Thailand...wow the 400-four is real pricey (120,000 baht)...told you it was a classic!
I found a CB400 Supersport (1994) for 85,000 Baht that looked nice...
http://www.bahtsold.com/detail.php?id=29719
There was a DR250 up for sale in Cambodia in March but not sure if it's gone now. Looks like there are a few used bike web sites around so have a look rather than trying to import one...unless you know how much you have to pay extra.

Can't let you go without another little story...Imagine a Honda 750 K6 bored out to 820 with an F1 exhaust (K6 was 4 pipes originally but we stuck an F1 single pipe on, fastened with locking wire at tail end)...So I am two-up going around the IOM circuit on Mad Sunday in 1979...Coming off the mountain down the hill towards Creg ne Barr bend at some silly speed...I see load of bikers having drink outside pub...still keep power on...they stare (should be braking now)...keep power on...they start to get up, mouths start opening...keep power on...They move swiftly into pub. I brake hard Chest out, legs and arms splayed ignore bend and go down side road next to pub...pull up and go in for a pint...Is that what SJB meant by an undesirable...

[Sean Moran]

It appears that there is an element of what would be considered to be "undesirables" here! Good to see.
Noaksy, I think the suspension system you refer to was called "monoshock".
Sean, I met a guy today who has a Kawasaki 175cc, single cylinder bike. It looks like a "chopper" and has a really good seating position for long hauls. The price is 75,000bht on the road.
Moto Guzzi 850LM ======= fantastic machine, a bit slow on acceleration but you don't have to slow down to go round bends!

The five speed box might have helped it along a little more than the one I had a few years back in Thailand, and that was also a horizontally opposed single (like the CT-90/100 postie bikes that they use here to deliver the mail if they don't like the hillclimbs on bicycles).

sorry Sean , but a single is a single and horizontaly opposed means at least two cylinders (BMW, Zundap, Douglas Dragonfly, etc.) or four cylinders as in Aerial Square four or Honda Goldwing. (there is an inherant torque reaction problem with this type of configuration , BTW)

Thanks and sorry. I have been trying to remember the right word for the different angle of the cylinder from vertical to horizontal on a single, but it's been so long now that I can't remember the term? The BMW/Goldwing/Subaru/Volkswagen engines are horizontally-opposed, and not the right word, but what do you call that difference when there's only one cylinder and nothing for it to be opposed to? If you look at the CB100 photo, that engine has the pistons going up and down, whereas the Honda 100 back in Thailand had the pistons going back and forward. I'd imagine the vibrations from either configuration would tend to resonate through the frame and stem to the handlebars about the same. They'd both be not quite "thumpers" but maybe more like "little-thumpers".

I've never owned a Kawasaki in my life, but that doesn't mean to say I don't want to. 75,000 thb new would translate to 25,000 second-hand in around 5 years, or am I overdepreciating? Two-stroke or four-stroke? Is the 175cc legal now or is he using a big-bore kit?

---o0o---

Sean,
I had a look at used bike sales in Thailand...wow the 400-four is real pricey (120,000 baht)...told you it was a classic!
I found a CB400 Supersport (1994) for 85,000 Baht that looked nice...
http://www.bahtsold.com/detail.php?id=29719
There was a DR250 up for sale in Cambodia in March but not sure if it's gone now. Looks like there are a few used bike web sites around so have a look rather than trying to import one...unless you know how much you have to pay extra.

I guess one day it might be worth looking into some of those sites, but maybe a little out of my price range, and I'm more interested in comparing standard sorts of motorcycles like you see on the roads in Thailand. Bikes in the 10,000-20,000 baht range sort of thing. I'd really like a GSXR-750 Suzuki but I can't afford it and it would be more of a luxury than a necessity. If I had 85,000 baht I could probably pickup a good second-hand diesel ute, but I've never looked into that yet?

It is nice to remember all the old models they used to test-ride in Two Wheels magazine though, and Hondas do go far back in time for me personally, but I reckon that it might be that the 6,500 thb Suzuki 2-stroke was both faster and more comfortable over long distances than the 18,000 thb Honda 4-stroke. Partly because the Honda seemed undergeared at 100km/h but mainly because it caused so much RSI with the vibrations. Both of those things could probably be quite easily overcome with a reduction in rear sproket teeth and some better handlebars/grips. Then you could have reliable countrywide transport without pain or tinitus without autolube for less than 20,000 thb!

Can't let you go without another little story...Imagine a Honda 750 K6 bored out to 820 with an F1 exhaust (K6 was 4 pipes originally but we stuck an F1 single pipe on, fastened with locking wire at tail end)...So I am two-up going around the IOM circuit on Mad Sunday in 1979...Coming off the mountain down the hill towards Creg ne Barr bend at some silly speed...I see load of bikers having drink outside pub...still keep power on...they stare (should be braking now)...keep power on...they start to get up, mouths start opening...keep power on...They move swiftly into pub. I brake hard Chest out, legs and arms splayed ignore bend and go down side road next to pub...pull up and go in for a pint...Is that what SJB meant by an undesirable...

I guess you must be glad that it wasn't some meeting for the local Vespa & Lambretta Users Club? Dem guys is dangerous!

[stilljustbrowsing]

Hi Sean, to answer your question about the Kwak 175, it is single cylinder, 4 stroke, standard spec.
Wich regards to single cylinder terminologly, the cylinder may be vertically mounted, forward sloping, or horizontally mounted, something to do with that chappie Newton!
BTW, if you are riding behind a lorry with twin rear wheels and can hear "clunk, clunk, clunk", look at the rear wheels, chances are that there is a brick wedged between the tyres just waiting to pop out at an unsuspecting motocyclist!