PAD and foreigners

[Jeffro]

Dear Jeffro, we are far away off from the topic here, but I want to reply to you and hope that other people forgive me for doing so, or they may just ignore the following lines.

Generally I do agree with you but I think that you are not too realistic or you just want the easy way out. I do not know with how many ladies from the horizontal business you have talked in your live, if any at all and that is not disrespecting.

Well I have been around those bars and ladies for many years and have even made some friends. I have talked with them for hours and translated or just read letters to them from “boyfriends” abroad. So I may think that I have a little idea about the trade and the ladies.

......

Now, you come here and want to safe them with; “help them pay for an education. Help their kids get an education. Or help their village by working with world vision and creating employment. Your payment will be the feeling that you have really helped someone.”

It is a complex problem with no easy solutions. I do not see the trade as a cancer for the country because the trade is around in most countries in the world. I have no idea, how many percents of people travelling to Thailand are sextourist but I think that they are a minority. So, I think that there are other issues at hand in Thailand which seem to be more important to me than the trade. Probably it just sells better to write and report about the trade then doing it about, Thai food, temples or beaches for example. That is why we should not get carried away too much with this subject.

I hope I was able to give you a little inside of the trade, from my humble point of view. I hope as well that you do not feel offended or patronized by my lines above.

Thank you pachangamac042 for your insight. I believe that this wasn't off the topic as I simply want to know why guys like Yellow_shirt want to kick out the foreigners. I then tried to put myself in his situation and try and figure out what upset him. Remember Yellow_shirt doesn't stand alone and many stand beside him. I don't think we should just discount him and call him an \\\ /////. He is a real person with real feelings. His political movement is very real.

One reason I thought he might be upset was the sex trade in Thailand. I don't think the sex trade is a nice thing and if the situation was in my country it would upset many people.

Now I know you probably think I'm a goody goody type of person that really doesn't understand the real situation. Well that is probably true when I first came to Thailand 30 years ago. I was working in refugee resettlement for the Red Cross during the Cambodian emergency. Since that time I have been closely aligned to the Thai community in Australia and Thailand.

Since I married my Thai wife 28 years ago, I have spent a lot of time with girls who once were in the sex trade, many who became very good friends in Australia. They married Aussie blokes and now have young families in Australia. The one thing they have in common is that they are ashamed of their past. I don't care if they worked as prostitutes or not. They are good friends. It is true many girls become tainted by their life in the bar and find it difficult to live a normal life.

I was sad to see all the funerals that happened in my wife's village from young people who have died of aids. The funerals have slowed down a bit now as I guess so many have died. A lot died from the sex trade and a lot of young men who caught aids from them.

I am only concerned for the girls that get into that trade. It is not a nice thing. It is dangerous and should not be promoted. I know it is not easily solved but it is definitely not solved by taking advantage of it for your own benefit. But thank you for giving the girls friendship. The best thing you can do to help them in the long run by showing them a better life.

[Yellow_Shirt]

[quote="pachangamac042"]

There are the ones in the bars, who are there for real despair (desesperacion). Often with similar stories. The daddy is a useless alcoholic, too big families, nobody who can take care of them and debts with the risk to losing house and land. Basic education with no chance to get a proper paid job. Only way out is to join the game to be able to provide for the family and pay back the banks.

There are the poor and basic educated village ladies, who went down to Bangkok, Pattaya or Phuket to work in factories or other businesses, making little money for hard work. They find out what other ladies can earn in the trade, up to four or five thousand Bath some days and nights. They join the trade for poor greed and the dream of the quick and big bucks.

There are the ladies in the bars, who have one or more regular boyfriends abroad sending them regularly money. They could easily retire back home and have a decent live in their village, but are still in the bars. Greed? Thrill?

Jeffro I have to agree what pachangamac042 what He has said in He posting which I don’t always agree what he says sometimes…
I didn’t start this posting it was a westerner that started it. He was being a smart ass but hay it work it getting people to read it.
Foreigners are most welcome to stay and holiday in Thailand as long as not destroying the Thai culture and the people.
I was reading LT kata story from Australia and it make me sad to this happen to him but this is reality here in Thailand.
Many westerners looking for love in all the wrong places. Time has change from 30 years ago in Thailand the Money culture has taken over and it is spreading fast across Thailand.

Like I said in my previous post the wage gap between the bar girl and a normal girl is large and is spreading like cancer. It hard to say what to do at this present time but for sure some think has to be done to this type of quick rich solution.

Like LT Kata said about the unfaith wife who he was sending money to and was using it to party with and have a good time in the village.
They can’t help it. It is free easy money every one in the western world would love somebody give them free money too.
And some case it is even worse as the bar girls turn to drugs hard drugs like speed just for fun as I know some girl from the villages have said and some have die going down this paths.

If a westerner is lucky to find the right Thai wife then good luck to him but he changes are getting hard every year.
Bar girls you have chance of 20% finding a girl who is looking for a westerner husband for true love the rest of the 80% are looking for a ATM machine or we say buffalo these are the facts.

Then Bar girls tell The westerner oh darling all Thai man are butterfly and they drink too much no good no good the funny thing is it happen in western world too.

Not all Thai Man are bad to their wife I seen many good Thai husbands too that had butterfly wife’s. But not to forget one girl I know who had a German boyfriend who made her pregnant she had the child half Thai and German and then left her for a younger Thai girl and does not give her cent to the girl with child.

And not to forget there is some good hearted western man who do care for their wife’s Jai boon..

I have seen were western man who have purchase a home in Thailand for their new Thai wife’s only to find the next year he belongs pack outside the home for him to pickup and their nothing he can do in The Thai law as a husband even that he paid for it under Thai law no foreigner can own land here then the next day real Thai husband move back to her home.

I could keep writing about this subject but I think it in the wrong post.

But one thing at least you do care about the situation here in Thailand about the sex tourism trade.

[pachangamac042]

ups, now I am speechless ?!!!?

[Just-1-Voice]

Yellow_Shirt

Good post, and I think we can all agree on a few things.

1) The Bar Girl situation desperately needs to be cleaned up. Just shutting down the bars won't do it. The girls who are just in it for the money for themselves will simply go l ply their trade elsewhere. The ones who are doing it to truly support their families need help with furthering their education so they can find better jobs.

2) There are good men and bad men, good women and bad women, in every culture on earth. Just as we can't paint all Thai men as irresponsible "butterflies", we can't paint all westerners as "back packers" or "sex tourists". Every one has to be taken on an individual basis. Sometimes we all forget that in our anger.

3) As noted, there are a number of foreign men who have come here, married wonderful Thai women and have loving families. I am one of them. As I've stated before, I came here on vacation after the death of my fist wife of 28 years, as I had done in the past with her when she was alive. I wasn't looking for a wife, merely the peace and solitude that I've always been able to find in this country as opposed to my own. I met my wife through a mutual friend, and one of the things that impressed me about her was her stating she wasn't looking for a "green card" or life in the U.S. but hoping to find a man who could love her and share a life with her in Thailand. It took 2 years of writing, talking online, on the phone, and 4 return visits before we were finally married last March. We have a nice home which, due to Thai laws, we put in the name of her 26 yr old son, who is a Thai Language school teacher. He, by the way, calls me Pah. Not just to my face, but also refers to me as that to his friends, which makes me feel very proud. You could say I'm one of the lucky ones.

All of us, regardless of which side of the political fence we are, realize that Thailand is facing some serious problems and questions right now, and there are no easy solutions. All of us have to work TOGETHER to help bring about those changes for the good of EVERYONE of Thailand and the country, and not just a select few. In some ways I consider Thailand as MY home and MY country, and I only want what is best for it and the people here.

We can agree to disagree on some things, but the bottom line is - Let's all work together to make Thailand what it has the potential to be.

[Lt Kata]

To j-1-V
My friend I bought all this discs in The shopping centre of Petchabun on the top floor I got so many different but these collection of 8 CDs was At 250 baths each and are so good...I am happy if you contact me to my email address to send you a copy of the collection if you cannot find it...Kids love it they take it like an instructive game and they learn very quick
the email of the company is www.perfectvision.co.th I don't know if they will show this site address if not

tonton*westnet.com.au the star is Hat> I will be very happy to do a copy of the collection no problems

Concerning my wife she was not a bar girl but she was working in a massage parlor...
Regards

Lt Kata

[Just-1-Voice]

Lt. Kata.

Thank you. I went to the web site without any problems. I need "tools" such as this to assist me in my undertaking to teach the children here, and appreciate anything that will aid me in that.

BTW. My wife is also a Thai Massage specialist. She has degrees/certificates from Bangkok Univ, Chiang Mai Univ., as well has 4 different private schools devoted to teaching advanced techniques.

Again, Thank You for the web address.

[stilljustbrowsing]

I think it is very good that this topic has moved from vitriolic comments to educated replies where one can agree to disagree on some items without being insulted.
Just goes to show what can be achieved by perseverence and understanding/education! Really lovely!

[Stense]

Sorry, I see this firstly ending up as a debate on bar ladies you have met. If marry one you have married the whole family, by so having to feed from 5 to 8 persons. I do not disagree that you, how long it must last will make your contribution.While being asked what "you" if a lady hunter as an average have to debit your account the first two years of your stay in Thailand; this based on a few hundred confession from men above 50'ty I now respond: "If you have not lost more than Bath 2 millions, you belongs to the group named as AVERAGE".My sorry No 2: As mention in my first comments, I felt that Thai "bar girls" not should be the by far most important topic, this as we can find as good girls in several next door countries. Kindly revert the discussion to foreigners ownership /international marketing knowledge/ average foreigners spending and as listed when introducing this heading.

[stilljustbrowsing]

There are foriegners in every country now, some contribute, and some do not (those that do not should be removed or punished depending on their reason for being there in the first place). If all countries adopted this policy, what do you think would happen?

[Yellow_Shirt]

Sorry, I see this firstly ending up as a debate on bar ladies you have met. If marry one you have married the whole family, by so having to feed from 5 to 8 persons. I do not disagree that you, how long it must last will make your contribution.While being asked what "you" if a lady hunter as an average have to debit your account the first two years of your stay in Thailand; this based on a few hundred confession from men above 50'ty I now respond: "If you have not lost more than Bath 2 millions, you belongs to the group named as AVERAGE".My sorry No 2: As mention in my first comments, I felt that Thai "bar girls" not should be the by far most important topic, this as we can find as good girls in several next door countries. Kindly revert the discussion to foreigners ownership /international marketing knowledge/ average foreigners spending and as listed when introducing this heading.

bar girls rely on the foreigner coming here for their support so the bar girls need to start up international marketing agency to promote their products to the world and the average foreigner spending money on then I don’t know we will have to set up a post to get some statistics on spending.