Abhisit: at what price?

[pachangamac042]

Regarding, tourism and economic crisis in 2008. Following a few figures I found in the net.


National statistics UK

Visits abroad by UK residents

In the 12-month period to November 2008, the number of visits abroad by UK residents, not seasonally adjusted, remained broadly the same when compared with the 12 months to November 2007, at 69.2 million.


Indian tourism statistics

Foreign Tourist Arrivals (FTAs):

FTAs during the year 2008 were 5.37 million as compared to FTAs of 5.08 million during the year 2007. Therefore, inspite of global financial melt down and terrorist activities, number of FTAs has increased in 2008 as compared to 2007. UNWTO has predicted a growth rate of 2-3% for international tourist arrivals in the world during 2008. Therefore, Indian Scenario (growth rate of 5.6%) is much better than world scenario.

The number of FTAs in December 2008 has risen to 5.22 lakhs as compared to 5.21 lakhs in November 2008.


The Hindu Business Line

Travel portals had reasons to smile over festive season

Anjana Chandramouly

Bangalore, Jan. 9 The festive season in December 2008, the week from Christmas to New Year,, has given a much-needed break to recession-hit travel portals.

According to Mr Ashwin Damera, Founder and CEO, Travelguru, the portal witnessed a 15 per cent increase in last-minute bookings to Goa. The softening of air fares also proved to be a bonanza at the right time.

Ms Neelu Singh, COO, Ezeego1.com, says the Christmas-New Year weekends were very good “as people did travel for a holiday. We have seen a 25 per cent rise in our bookings during this period”. According to her, bookings for the entire month (December) had been steady. Popular routes during this period, she says, were Mumbai-Kochi, Mumbai-Goa, Delhi-Goa, Mumbai-Jaipur, Bangalore-Kochi and Mumbai-Kolkata.

“We did record business for our hotels — our bookings increased by over 100 per cent from last year’s numbers,” says Mr Deep Kalra, CEO and Founder, MakeMyTrip. On December 31, the portal also received an “unprecedented” 1.5 lakh hits on its Web site.


Tourist statistics for Seychelles

Twelve thousand eight hundred and fifteen (12815) visitors arrived in Seychelles
during the month of November 2008, which was 4% below the 2007 level. This also
included visitors on transit. The figure was 14% above the average for the same
month of the last five years. In November 2008, visitors stayed for an average of
10.0 nights compared to 9.7 nights in November 2007

One hundred and forty five thousand six hundred and thirty three (145633) visitors
arrived during the first eleven months of 2008, which was 1% below the 2007 level.
The average length of stay of these visitors was 10.2 nights compared to 9.9 nights
in 2007 and indicating a 2% increase in the number of visitor nights spent in
Seychelles.


Tourism government New Zealand

Trips abroad by NZ Residents for 2008

1,979,490 up 8,502 or 0.4 % on the previous year


Bali tourism board organisation

The number of foreign direct arrival in January-September 2008 increased 20.28% compared with the year of 2007


Tourism Malaysia

Malaysia registered 22.05 million tourists in 2008, surpassing the 21.5 million target set by the government under the Ninth Malaysia Plan. This is an overall increase of 5.1% compared to 2007.

The month of December registered the highest number of tourists with arrivals of 2,058,684, an increase of 9.2% compared to the same month last year.


World Tourism Barometer

“Gemäß diesen Daten wurden in den ersten acht Monaten 641 Mio. internationale Ankünfte weltweit verzeichnet. Das entspricht einem Anstieg von rund 23 Mio. Ankünften bzw. rund + 3,7 % im Vergleich zum Vorjahr.“

Quick translation; first 8 month 2008, 641 million international arrivals world wide. Around 23 million more then sametime last year an increase of around 3,7 % compared to last year.


Latest statistics for December 2008 are not yet available for most countries, but generally it is to say, THAT THERE WAS NO DECREASE IN TOURISM BECAUSE THE ECONOMIC CRISIS FOR THE YEAR 2008.

There was a much lower increase then expected, that is true and does have to do with the econoc crisis. That is how far I am going regarding this subject. People still argueing the contrary, should not expect any replies from my side.

[Just-1-Voice]

Pach...

Great post - good research. Now what I would like to see are the true, actual figures for Thailand for those same periods and see how they stack up against the others. I have a feeling it would be rather dismally.

[villager]

Pach...

Great post - good research. Now what I would like to see are the true, actual figures for Thailand for those same periods and see how they stack up against the others. I have a feeling it would be rather dismally.

Hi J1V, first things first, i don,t know who has informed you about nothing can be in your own name,this is not correct , i bought a brand new ISUZU mu7 7 SEATER some 4years ago , i just simply went to our local immigration office and got a letter confirming my address took it to the isuzu dealership in nang rong and bought the car in MY NAME,which is the name on the REG document, i,m not sure if you pay by monthly payments but i purchased the car CASH and had no problems whatsover, also the house, if you go to the local amphur you can apply for a yellow TAMBIEN BAN which puts the house in your name i know for sure cos i have one myself,others will most likely know more about this subject than I with some luck you may get some further feedback, in regards to the tourists entering Thailand maybe you have not read my post so i,ll repeat myself, last week my wife and i was invited to a housewarming party where i got into conversation with a Belgian guy who had lived in BKK for over 10 years amongst other things we discussed tourism came up, he quite matter of fact informed me that the tourist figures was being massaged , how do you know? i inquired , he said his wife's sister worked at the airport and was in a position to know the facts, i inquired how they did it , he said that many passengers who landed and were in transit to another country were being counted as tourists , whether this is true or not is open to speculation , but its certainly food for thought eh, my best to your wife i wish her a speedy recovery and i truly hope that you achieve JUSTICE.

[pachangamac042]

Minnie, you are generally right with your points regarding stimulus… What you wrote would be more or less common sense. Question is, do they teach you common sense in Oxford. Or, does common sense buy votes?

--

Villager, regarding your land buying point, well that is a complicated issue. I mean, if you are married you can buy land on your wife’s name. Problem comes after a divorce.

Ok, Thais do not want to sell out there land to foreigners. But they could allow a co-ownership of land for foreigners married to Thais, with regulated rules of what would happened after a possible divorce. For example that half the land “belongs” to the foreign partner and the Thai partner has either to pay the foreign partner out or the land has to be sold 50-50. I could probably live with that.

On addition on the land issue I would love to see the working issue for foreigners changed as well. Why should I not be officially allowed to do works on and around my own house or on my land as long as it is not for the purpose of making money?

Regarding houses for low income people, well, I would see it as a good idea. But this low income folks should get low interests rates loans as well. Government worker get similar loans, so why not expend it to the poor as well?

Tourism and low exchange rates, well, add high prizes to it and it is obvious that it does not help tourism at all. It does not help export neither, but it does not look like the government has any plans to change it any time soon. From my point of view, they should have devalued the Thai Bath first thing, as sign of goodwill after the airport circus. But again, it does not look like the government is prepared to show some goodwill acts for foreigners for the time being.

--

Just-1-Voice and residency citizenship. Well an other very complicated issue. But I would make it a bit less easy then you pointed out.

A foreigner legally married with a Thai and living and registrated in Thailand, should get a 1 year provisional residency permit. After that year he should get a 5 year permanent residency permit.

After those 5 years, provisional citizenship status for maybe an other 3 years. After that full citizenship with same rights as a Thai citizen, but only if you would be able to read, write and speak Thai, have basic Thai history knowledge and basic geographical and cultural knowledge.

That is more or less how it works in the country I grow up. Making it too easy could lead to misuse.

Regarding ownership of vehicles, well I think that this is already possible, if you are registrated in Thailand, living on a one year visa.

House and land ownership, could come with the provisional citizenship. Provisional ownership could be give with the permanent residency already, which could be changed to permanent owner ship later.

So that is more or less how I would try to regulate your issues in Thailand. I understand that it is simplified and would take much more then my few lines, but it could be seen as a base.

[villager]

Minnie, you are generally right with your points regarding stimulus… What you wrote would be more or less common sense. Question is, do they teach you common sense in Oxford. Or, does common sense buy votes?

--

Villager, regarding your land buying point, well that is a complicated issue. I mean, if you are married you can buy land on your wife’s name. Problem comes after a divorce.

Ok, Thais do not want to sell out there land to foreigners. But they could allow a co-ownership of land for foreigners married to Thais, with regulated rules of what would happened after a possible divorce. For example that half the land “belongs” to the foreign partner and the Thai partner has either to pay the foreign partner out or the land has to be sold 50-50. I could probably live with that.

On addition on the land issue I would love to see the working issue for foreigners changed as well. Why should I not be officially allowed to do works on and around my own house or on my land as long as it is not for the purpose of making money?

Regarding houses for low income people, well, I would see it as a good idea. But this low income folks should get low interests rates loans as well. Government worker get similar loans, so why not expend it to the poor as well?

Tourism and low exchange rates, well, add high prizes to it and it is obvious that it does not help tourism at all. It does not help export neither, but it does not look like the government has any plans to change it any time soon. From my point of view, they should have devalued the Thai Bath first thing, as sign of goodwill after the airport circus. But again, it does not look like the government is prepared to show some goodwill acts for foreigners for the time being.

--

Just-1-Voice and residency citizenship. Well an other very complicated issue. But I would make it a bit less easy then you pointed out.

A foreigner legally married with a Thai and living and registrated in Thailand, should get a 1 year provisional residency permit. After that year he should get a 5 year permanent residency permit.

After those 5 years, provisional citizenship status for maybe an other 3 years. After that full citizenship with same rights as a Thai citizen, but only if you would be able to read, write and speak Thai, have basic Thai history knowledge and basic geographical and cultural knowledge.

That is more or less how it works in the country I grow up. Making it too easy could lead to misuse.

Regarding ownership of vehicles, well I think that this is already possible, if you are registrated in Thailand, living on a one year visa.

House and land ownership, could come with the provisional citizenship. Provisional ownership could be give with the permanent residency already, which could be changed to permanent owner ship later.

So that is more or less how I would try to regulate your issues in Thailand. I understand that it is simplified and would take much more then my few lines, but it could be seen as a base.

Sorry Mac , if i did not explain better i only have the house in my name , the land is still hers , but i,m told you can lease the land for a 30 year period , i,m not going through all that BS and only got the house in my name at my wifes request in case something untoward happened to her to save family problems, you know how problems like this could well arise!!LOL.

[pachangamac042]

villager, not sure what you mean with “tourist figures being massaged”. Fact is that every person entering the country is being accounted for and registered. People on transit, do not pass immigration and are not accounted for.

Now, if we are talking about arrivals by plane, well, that would include transit tourist.

“he said his wife's sister worked at the airport and was in a position to know the facts”, yeah, and my cousins, neighbour’s, friend’s grandma’s, son in law, works in Cuba and says that Fidel Castro wears boxer shorts.

Look would you have said that, she works for immigration central office in Bangkok, in a high up position, well, then we could be talking about facts here. Some people enter the country by airway, others by land and others by seaway, and just because she works in the airport, she knows the facts? That is bit cheap, is it not?

--

Just-1-Voice, numbers for Thailand will be available soon, I guess. At least the official numbers from international air passengers, which can not be manipulated by the government.

Look Just-1, I have been in Phuket for many years during December, and I can tell you, that the numbers were badly down this year, whatever the government will tell us one day.

[villager]

[quote="pachangamac042"]villager, not sure what you mean with “tourist figures being massaged”. Fact is that every person entering the country is being accounted for and registered. People on transit, do not pass immigration and are not accounted for.

Now, if we are talking about arrivals by plane, well, that would include transit tourist.

“he said his wife's sister worked at the airport and was in a position to know the facts”, yeah, and my cousins, neighbour’s, friend’s grandma’s, son in law, works in Cuba and says that Fidel Castro wears boxer shorts.

Look would you have said that, she works for immigration central office in Bangkok, in a high up position, well, then we could be talking about facts here. Some people enter the country by airway, others by land and others by seaway, and just because she works in the airport, she knows the facts? That is bit cheap, is it not?

--

Just-1-Voice, numbers for Thailand will be available soon, I guess. At least the official numbers from international air passengers, which can not be manipulated by the government.

Look Just-1, I have been in Phuket for many years during December, and I can tell you, that the numbers were badly down this year, whatever the government will tell us one day.[/quote Mac, just cool it will you ,i am only relating what this guy said to me , maybe he just liked the sound of his own voice, how do i know?, i wrote it was open to speculation , but think about this small thing if and say if, they could add a few hundred thousand to the tourist figures just WHO would be saying , there you are , my package to help the tourist trade is working!! its not rocket science is it.

[Minnie]

Villager I didn't want to say earlier because I wanted to se if this intelligensia of a bloke would state it himself.

yelloshirt...the difference you put forward is Pensioners...are you placing pensioners on the same footing as civil servants !!!
Yes some countries are placing a stimulus package because their banks have a liquidity capital crisis...Thai banks do not have the same things...Thailands pain comes because as a reperccussions as to what is happening around it NOT because of its banks difficulties...The thai baht being at such a strong weight is NO good for exporters..if people can't sell their exports, they will not manufacture goods and consequence jobs will go...increasing pension rights for civil servants ??? why was the civil servant pension based with Madoff ??

And with regards to the UK stimulus package there are now some economist and analysts that are saying enough is enough.
So you Khun Abscess has NO vadility in stating this 'stimulus package' because thailand is not effected by bank liquidity but by recession...if the PAD had behaved instead of rampaging for months Thailand would not be feeling it as much as it is doing so now...the tourist industry for example the wealthy will also go on holiday if the Demon rats were not fascists people would feel safe to come to Thailand, but it is perceived politically unbalanced and for that the tourist swill go else where as will and are doing so the businesses... Your leaders DO NOT love their country..just their pockets

[villager]

Villager I didn't want to say earlier because I wanted to se if this intelligensia of a bloke would state it himself.

yelloshirt...the difference you put forward is Pensioners...are you placing pensioners on the same footing as civil servants !!!
Yes some countries are placing a stimulus package because their banks have a liquidity capital crisis...Thai banks do not have the same things...Thailands pain comes because as a reperccussions as to what is happening around it NOT because of its banks difficulties...The thai baht being at such a strong weight is NO good for exporters..if people can't sell their exports, they will not manufacture goods and consequence jobs will go...increasing pension rights for civil servants ??? why was the civil servant pension based with Madoff ??

And with regards to the UK stimulus package there are now some economist and analysts that are saying enough is enough.
So you Khun Abscess has NO vadility in stating this 'stimulus package' because thailand is not effected by bank liquidity but by recession...if the PAD had behaved instead of rampaging for months Thailand would not be feeling it as much as it is doing so now...the tourist industry for example the wealthy will also go on holiday if the Demon rats were not fascists people would feel safe to come to Thailand, but it is perceived politically unbalanced and for that the tourist swill go else where as will and are doing so the businesses... Your leaders DO NOT love their country..just their pockets

Minnie I have no time whatsoever for Civil servants for me they are just a load of parasitic pants polishers, all the perks , index linked pensions ,jobs for life, answerable to no one, my country the UK is awash with em, and here they are even worse!, i,ve been in the local amphur and seen how they look down on people and those high up in the ladder are as bent as corkscrews , maybe you or others do not agree with my views on them, but they are so so full of their own importance, i,ve seen 3 of them yapping for 10 minutes on total nonsense whilst there is queue a mile long wait to grovel to their mighty presence, omg , i,m really on one ain,t I

[Minnie]

Villager ...One point where you and I are both 100% in agreement.
in both countries....