Motorcycles: 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke, Long Distance.

[Sean Moran]

[stilljustbrowsing]

Ok, serious note, basic "rules" are, big 4-stroke, multi cylinder (two or more) = long distance. (may also be used for short distances)
Do not get the "cafe-racer" style for long distance riding. Why?
1) it kills your arms at low speeds because most of your upper body weight is being supported by your arms. High speeds are better because the increased wind resitance buoys the body and relieves the arms from supporting said weight. (high speeds are not sustainable in Thailand, that includes traffic, road conditions, and life expectancy)
2) They are impractical if a large amout of baggage is to be carried. (don't tell the wife I called her that)
Therefore a "tourer" (upright back position) is better, including a large wind-screen, rain and insects are then better deflected.
Small Bikes, irrespective of whether they are 2 or 4 stroke are only good for short distances.
Why take steps when one has wheels?

[Sean Moran]

Sean: I read the story about your Suzi and Honda bikes. I respect you. I can't imagine myself riding those small bikes on a long trip going at 90-110 km/hr.

Thanks mate. Please remember though that necessity is the mother of all vibration. As SJB has mentioned, larger capacity multi-cylinder bikes are more suitable for long-distance touring. In Thailand, with the maximum displacement set at around 150cc if I remember, big bikes are all going to be imported and probably more expensive than a good second-hand diesel ute (pickup) which is the safer way to travel in private in the country by far.

Riding a little "scooter" around Thailand is not a matter of choice, but more about budget. I just hope you never have to try it except for the occasional thrillseeking because it's very exciting but not the most reliable way to stay alive. Rarely a dull moment, but only if you've done a lot of riding in the past is it worth risking your life over.

Sean: I can’t imagine what it feels like being passed by a ten-wheeler or 50 km/hr side wind.

Did you look at a Super4? I am sure you can get a used Super4 for not much more than what you pay for the Honda Moped. I’d say THB 16,000 to 18,000.

My theory on safety around high-speed cars and trucks on country roads is that the faster I ride, the more time they have to see me and veer a little out of the way so that they don't hit me, and most trucks I've come across don't make more than around 90km/h but it really takes a lot of concentration to not become another statistic. Also, passing trucks on the left is a big no-no in Australia, where it's the norm to always pass on the right-hand side. It takes some getting used to on Thai roads because it's not legal for motorcycles to pass in the car/truck lanes, so I was reminded once to the tune of 400 baht.

I remember seeing the name Super4 once or twice on the cowling of a bike, but I can't remember the brand or any other features of the type of bike. I hope that next time I need some transport in Thailand, I'll at least get a nice five speed bike with 125-150cc, but still haven't found a four-stroke single that doesn't cause debilitating albeit temporary RSI after a long country ride. I've only tried one bike, as mentioned. I'd like to test out this Super4 on a 3-4 hour country ride to see whether it strains the arms and hands, but I'd have to remember what sort of configuration they have.

Can you describe the engine and gearing of the Super4 because I honestly don't remember? The first thing I ask about when I walk into a mo-sai shop is "manu clut?". After that, it comes back to price, but I reckon 15-20,000 is probably about the price range where a decently maintained s/h bike might be purchased. What brand is a Super4 too, btw?

[stilljustbrowsing]

Super 4 is a Honda!
This reminds me of a friend of mine who had a problem with flatulence.
Every time he pharted, his a.s.s said "hooondaaaa", the doctor looked for a while and then realised the guy had an absess there. "What does that mean?" asked the patient, "ah" said the doctor, "absess makes the phart go hondaaa"

[prommee_NE]

Now how did I miss this topic? Good post SJB!

I'm banned by the wife from the bigger machines nowadays...relegated to the Honda Phantom in Thailand.

I have to agree with SJB...long distance = big 4-stroke...preferably with 4+cylinders.

But to give you a few anecdotes of small bikes and 2/4 stroke:

2-stroke: Had a Suziki 185 GT in the 1970's...not much of a power band on a small 2-stroke...the Suziki 380 GT could put you in serious trouble taking the choke off at 3000 rpm...the 185 was just a pulse race. The Kawi 500 would simply plant you up the nearest tree! Traveling 500 miles on the 185 was a pain in the neck, the bottom and frustrating on every hill. Headwinds were a real pain as well...but the machine itself coped well even with the throttle wide open for 70% of the journey.

4-stroke small: 100CC Honda...lasted 75% of the journey from Birmingham to Newquay on 75% throttle before the piston was holed..no power...but was sustained...never ever rode a small 4-stroke again! Great for plodding around small distances over and over...but never take on a long run. (maybe it was 100% throttle and I am being unkind...it was my sister's first bike and I had been riding my Le mans MkII for over 3 years at the time...cost me a new bike for her!)

2-stroke medium: 250-500 class: Stay away from the Kawi 250 on long journeys unless you have a spare piston...middle one subject to bad overheating problems. Great for impressing girls on short runs...fast and fun but go long and you end up on the side of the road. I did, several times pushing the thing up to 5 miles...not funny! Suzuki 250 was everyones girlfriend...went Birmingham to Inverness and back without a hitch...(to the bike). Yamaha was the RD 200 failed miserably in a headwind or hills but was real fast off the lights. NEVER ride an KH500H1 or KH750H2...instant death (as were a few other 2-stroke 5oo's...way too powerful for their frames and tank slap was the norm)

4-stroke medium: Never had a problem long distance with 400cc and above. Lower (250 class) 2-strokes were faster and more fun but the 400-four plodded along at the same speed regardless of hills, winds or anything...except for the girlfriend slapping you cos you just lost one of her high heels on the last bend! Had a CX-500, 400-N, 400-Four, Yamaha 500 twin, and rode CB500 twin and four...stayed off the Suzukis cos I hated their brakes....which I still hate!

4-stroke big: Take anyone you like...if you can afford them, but totally wasted on Thailand roads.

There you go...completely useless...but I got to mention a few bikes I loved....Except for my faourite GPZ750, the Ninja 900 and the CBX1000...ooh I forgot...where can I get a Yamaha XT500...That was a thumper!!

edited for silly mistakes...I said XJ500??? I meant XT500...single cyllinder thumper! I said RD500...I meant the Kwaka 500 and 750 2-strokes which were prone to 'tank slapping'. I meant the CB100cc single cylinder...which has only one piston

[Sean Moran]

Now how did I miss this topic? Good post SJB!

I'm banned by the wife from the bigger machines nowadays...relegated to the Honda Phantom in Thailand.

I have to agree with SJB...long distance = big 4-stroke...preferably with 4+cylinders.

But to give you a few anecdotes of small bikes and 2/4 stroke:


4-stroke small: 100CC Honda...lasted 75% of the journey from Birmingham to Newquay on 75% throttle before the pistons were holed..no power...but was sustained...never ever rode a small 4-stroke again! Great for plodding around small distances over and over...but never take on a long run. (maybe it was 100% throttle and I am being unkind...it was my sister's first bike and I had been riding my Le mans MkII for over 3 years at the time...cost me a new bike for her!)

...

4-stroke big: Take anyone you like...if you can afford them, but totally wasted on Thailand roads.

There you go...completely useless...but I got to mention a few bikes I loved....Except for my faourite GPZ750, the Ninja 900 and the CBX1000...ooh I forgot...where can I get a Yamaha XJ500...That was a thumper!!

Thanks for the reply. I hope you don't mind if I ask about the little Honda specifically, because as far as I know, the cost of an imported big bike into Thailand is probably more than a good second-hand diesel ute, which would be a lot less riskier.

I know roughly where Birmingham is, but how far away is Newquay in road km? What sort of cruising speed were you running on the highway? How long did it take ? Sorry to hear about the piston/s. Was it a twin? How many gears and would the top gear ratio have been 1:1 ?

I reckon the Honda 100 single I rode was best at around 95% throttle at 100km/h. Maybe 90% at 95 km/h on flat road with no wind.


---o0o---

Oh, and most of all, did you feel any pain in your arms or hands after the long ride? I'd imagine a 100cc twin might have a counteracting effect in the vibration department, but if it was a single, then it was not far off the same specs as the one I had.

[stilljustbrowsing]

Hi guys, the large 1000cc bike I had was the Suzuki GS1000EN, four stroke, four cylinder. No vibration, and the seating position perfect for long rides (500 miles per day sometimes) but then again, the top speed was only 250kph!
I had a yamaha RD250 when they replaced the YDS7. Twin cylinder two stroke, top speed around 150kph. The problem with two strokes is the spark plugs don't last long, so make sure you have a spare and the "plug wrench". (again, no ticeable vibration.)
One of the best tourers I had was a Triumph 650cc Tiger, handlebars were on rubber supported mountings , no vibration!
Just one more comment, the bigger the bike, the safer it is! Why? Sometimes you need to accelerate away from a potential accident, small bikes just don't have that sort of power when you need it.

[Sean Moran]

That's probably right, especially when you're half-way through a set of traffic lights and something comes out of the blue (on the red) and I also wonder if it might not have something to do with plain old physics in the case of say a head-on or tee-boning some car that just pulled out on you? There's mass, which can have a very direct effect on combined deceleration, but there might also be height, with say a 500-650 trail/enduro/Paris-Dakar sort of bike, which allows you to almost flyover a small sedan on the wrong side of the road across a small bridge and come to landing on a nice soft piece of tarmac in front of the next car on line?

[stilljustbrowsing]

Very funny! I remember a road safety picture from the 70's, it showed a Suzuki 250 buried up to its rear wheel in the side of a car (the front wheel was on the passenger seat), the car driver killed instantly and the bike rider? He went straight over the top of the car, bounced down the road a bit and ended up with a few bruises!
BTW, good tyres, correct tyre pressure and good brakes are a must! (stay off the white lines and metal grids in the rain, they are lethal.)

[Sean Moran]

That sounds nasty. It would seem fairly rare too, although there have been a couple of stories on freak motor-vehicle fatalities in the Au news these last couple of months. One poor bloke was following behind a truck when a lump of concrete fell of the back, through his windscreen and hit him. Rare, but tragic.

I wonder what the bike rider was doing riding straight into the side of a car to start with? Bikes have terrific brakes and far better maneouverability than cars. Strange that situation started like that, and even stranger the way it finished. I don't really know what to say on that one?