Is biomass based charcoal economy needed or not an issue?

[Ian]

Ian,

I agree that the "hot air engine" had its day following the greater power obtained from the internal combustion engine. It was too bulky and had little power for its size. However, it had the advantage of not needing a pressurised container...being built due to the concerns of Rev Stirling about accidents with exploding steam engines. A revival was tried by Philips in the mid 20th century but that went badly. However, the Danish have come up with something I like:

http://www.bios-bioenergy.at/en/downloads-publications/chp-stirling-engine.html

The second pdf file is in English and refers to a 35KWatt machine.

I have done some research into the technology and can refer you to other sites if you are interested.

Personally, I like the idea being revived again. Ericsson did some work on solar energy use for the hot side but abandoned it due to lack of funding...the ICE had overtaken the technology by a long way at the time. I also like the idea of the hot side being integrated into a kiln used for charcoal making or by a furnace from biomass material.

I must emphasise that I am not talking of the large generation of power to supply urban areas here. I am talking about the generation of localised electricity to supply remote farmlands and villages currently not connected or poorly connected to the National Grid.

Let us look at practicalities rather technicalities, current machines are being developed in Denmark. Would Thailand import or build their own? Who would finance either choice? The villagers would not and the government would be more interested in selling electricity than providing it for free.
In my village there is electricity, but 50% still cook over wood or charcoal fires. They sesent paying for street lights and refuse collection, each month it is a struggle to get 50Baht out of them for this.
If such a machine was installed who would operate it?

What is your take on the human factor in such an enterprise, so far I have not been impressed by the ability of communities in Thailand to work together for their mutual good.

[rajesh_sk76]

Ian,

In reply to your comment, i agree in a way Thailand research and policy, they all looking in a centrallized energy production rather small char coal based. Hot air engine could be an option but there new innovation which could be combined to hot air engines like Best pyrolysis technology (slow pyrolysis) or kiln for local electricity and char coal. please have a look on this too with stirling engine.

Regarding the financing andfunding, UNDP, local banks, ADB or EU commission RE fundigs are available. We together work on how to develop a good convincing proposal for local community development through sustainable char coal based electricity production for village economy using waste forest residues, para wood waste and rice straw too. Please send further comments to (rkempegowda@asianust.ac.th or rajesh_sk76@yahoo.co.in). We could really select one pilot case for thai village module and work to develop eco-entrepreneurship training for them. please comment and any body could join and develop this work together for thai community with self initiatives.

[Ian]

Ian,

In reply to your comment, i agree in a way Thailand research and policy, they all looking in a centrallized energy production rather small char coal based. Hot air engine could be an option but there new innovation which could be combined to hot air engines like Best pyrolysis technology (slow pyrolysis) or kiln for local electricity and char coal. please have a look on this too with stirling engine.

Regarding the financing andfunding, UNDP, local banks, ADB or EU commission RE fundigs are available. We together work on how to develop a good convincing proposal for local community development through sustainable char coal based electricity production for village economy using waste forest residues, para wood waste and rice straw too. Please send further comments to (rkempegowda@asianust.ac.th or rajesh_sk76@yahoo.co.in). We could really select one pilot case for thai village module and work to develop eco-entrepreneurship training for them. please comment and any body could join and develop this work together for thai community with self initiatives.

Rajesh, perhaps you are unaware that I am 73 years old, thus I have mental enthusiasm but not physical enthusiasm
I will be happy to discuss, debate, examine ideas, but it takes a lot of persuassion to get me off my backside.

[prommee_NE]

Let us look at practicalities rather technicalities, current machines are being developed in Denmark. Would Thailand import or build their own? Who would finance either choice? The villagers would not and the government would be more interested in selling electricity than providing it for free.
In my village there is electricity, but 50% still cook over wood or charcoal fires. They sesent paying for street lights and refuse collection, each month it is a struggle to get 50Baht out of them for this.
If such a machine was installed who would operate it?

What is your take on the human factor in such an enterprise, so far I have not been impressed by the ability of communities in Thailand to work together for their mutual good.

Yes I have to agree with you on this Ian. We do not have refuse collection in our village, apart from the plastic bottle/tin can man" who pays cash. There isn't a lot of waste and this is usually burnt on an individual basis. I was thinking of a small plant on Government land that could be used to burn all the village rubbish and produce electricity...but as you say it would be no more than a pipe-dream...I cannot even get them to make compost, even though they have seen the improvements in my soil over 10 years.

When we asked the Electricity board if they could extend to the farm...they wanted 10 of us to pay for the poles to get the electricity there so that they could charge us for it!

No-one appears to be looking at the small...only the large-scale creation of electricity. I think solar panels are too expensive and take too long to recover the initial outlay...and the sun time is too short for them to be worthwhile. The main thing in our farms is to pump water from large ponds to the paddy fields during the dry period between seed planting and transplanting. Currently their tractors are used to pump the water but everyone complains about the cost of diesel to do this. Hence my idea to revive the Ericsson engine...easy to maintain, lasts ages and all that is needed is a fire..which is made by everyone anyway.

On the question of quick growing wood...I thought Eucalyptus was being grown as the tree of choice...very fast growing and can be used in a variety of ways.

[Ian]

Prommee, Once eucalyptus, always eucalyptus. I do not know what nationality you are but in Britain yew trees are associated with church graveyards simply because the yew tree prevents the growth of other plants/trees in its vicinity, it poisons the soil for other plants, thus gardening maintenance becomes simpler. The eucalyptus tree has a similar strategy.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=32

[prommee_NE]

Ian, I was not advocating the growing of Eucalyptus...only pointing out that it was the tree of choice by the Government for reforestation. I believe it was introduced around 1976 and has been planted in many areas, especially in low fertile regions, because of its fast growing properties.

I am curious as to how much biomass is required to run a machine using slow pyrolosis technology and whether additional cropping would be required...in the region I am familar with, there is currently only enough water to sustain a single crop season at the moment and this is reliant on rainfall.

[Ian]

Ian, I was not advocating the growing of Eucalyptus...only pointing out that it was the tree of choice by the Government for reforestation. I believe it was introduced around 1976 and has been planted in many areas, especially in low fertile regions, because of its fast growing properties.

I am curious as to how much biomass is required to run a machine using slow pyrolosis technology and whether additional cropping would be required...in the region I am familar with, there is currently only enough water to sustain a single crop season at the moment and this is reliant on rainfall.

There are too many unknowns without building a trial plant. The water content of the biomass, the ash residue content, forced or natural airflow during combustion, heat exchange efficiency, etc etc. However what does occur to me is that if the biomass is stacked and allowed to decompose under its own weight and with air excluded, as in a composter, you have in effect got peat. The properties and use of peat as a fuel is a well established technology.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Modern-H ... -Fuel.aspx

Here is another process which might interest you http://www.dynamotive.com/en/technology/index.html

[american2]

You want to help the economy, Save the environment. Encourage the investigation into Plasma Gassification Technology. Produce power and rid the country of waste at the same time.