The rich and the poor

[david]

Occasionally the Post comes up with food for thought articles which analyze Thai society. Granted there’ll always be class divisions to some degree. The writer suggests ‘the privileged ones’ open their arms to help create a majority middle class! Equality scares people who have control and the elites still rewrite and bend the rules for their own benefit, not the benefit of others. This article is worth a read for those who aren’t familiar with the class system in Thailand.



http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... t-and-prai

[taurus]

Occasionally the Post comes up with food for thought articles which analyze Thai society. Granted there’ll always be class divisions to some degree. The writer suggests ‘the privileged ones’ open their arms to help create a majority middle class! Equality scares people who have control and the elites still rewrite and bend the rules for their own benefit, not the benefit of others. This article is worth a read for those who aren’t familiar with the class system in Thailand.



http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... t-and-prai

As You write David an excellent article thoughtfully written by my favourite journalist , its indeed food for thought ,however the way I see it a change of government will alter nothing whatsoever ,what it needs is a complete change of attitude from both rich and poor alike ,how this is brought about is the 64,000 dollar question , IMHO the brown skinned Issan Thai themselves consider that they are inferior than their white skinned counterparts ,especially the ladies ,hence all the Myriads of ads on national TV and the fashion magazines for whitening agents,soaps and creams and until this national inferiority complex is thrown in the trashcan were it belongs the problem will persist ,also 90% of the medium to large business's in this area are run by what I would term ethic Chinese simply because their acumen ,foresight,and mindset is far different than the average Issan Thai , the living proof is right before our eyes not just in this area but nationwide too, "the ant and the cricket" in "Aeasop's fables" springs readily to mind ,

[Aussie John]

If the infrastructure were in place including major reforms to the education system there is no reason why Isaan people could not achieve results that would move them economically forward. Unfortunately discrimination based on social class and skin colour has seen the elites maintain an old 'slavery' method of control, that of keeping the body strong and the mind weak.
Everyone has the capacity to learn no matter their class or cultural background. Thai elites have used this archaic form of ideology to keep a huge proportion of the population in virtual servitude.
Without the 'prai' the amnat's fragile castle of cards would come tumbling down.

[taurus]

If the infrastructure were in place including major reforms to the education system there is no reason why Isaan people could not achieve results that would move them economically forward. Unfortunately discrimination based on social class and skin colour has seen the elites maintain an old 'slavery' method of control, that of keeping the body strong and the mind weak.
Everyone has the capacity to learn no matter their class or cultural background. Thai elites have used this archaic form of ideology to keep a huge proportion of the population in virtual servitude.
Without the 'prai' the amnat's fragile castle of cards would come tumbling down.

Hi John , could you please describe what your interpretation of "elite" is? , many of the so called "elites"family's came from China generations ago with only the clothes on their backs ,and such like as the Charoen Pokphand family of CP foods fame, through sheer hard work, vision,and planning now employ (or you would say exploit) 10's of thousands of Thai's who would otherwise not have a job ,this of course is carried on through the whole strata of Chinese Thai society who now are the backbone of commerce ,and politics too, the Chinese saw an opportunity and took it with both hands which according To many is somehow a crime ,In My book they are Thailands answer to Bill Gates,Richard Branson ,and the "Google boys who started up business in a garage who now employ (exploit) hundreds of thousands,it is not their fault that many Issan Thai's are of the opinion that there is only today and tomorrow simply do's not exist , like it or loath it the simple fact is that without the Thai Chinese this country would go bankrupt overnight , as far as discrimination go;s why are billions made by the pharmaceutical companys selling whitening agents to brown skinned Thai's??, the answer is quite simple they themselves think brown is ugly and white is beautiful so in effect it is self discrimination, most of Thailands females suffer from a severe case of Micheal Jackson syndrome, "nose jobs" a gogo, and the cosmetic surgeons are making a fortune

[Aussie John]

Hi Taurus.
I dont deny the Chinese Thai are industrious, hard working and 'clever'. yes they have built the economy to what it is today.
They have also centralised power in the major capitals along with their businesses and factories.
If they were and ethical moral group they would encourage the benifits of a true democracy. Yet a true democracy has never taken a firm grip in the country. Decentralising the power away from the capitals may spread the wealth.
The elites are a mixture of Chinese/Thai and wealthy Ethnic Thai they lead all the major institutions in the kingdom. Those that govern take an oath in public office to serve the nation but in reality they serve themselves, their families and associates. This is their CLEVERNESS at work. Without the undereducated classes they would not of been able to amass this wealth. Industrious and hard working do not equal ethical and moral which is what is severly lacking.
Yes these rich families employ the masses. They also control how information and education is distributed throughout the kingdom. Its a feudal mentality that works in mainland China but is slowly changing people are now beginning to see the injustice especially in Communist China where the ideology has totally warped the notion of a equatable socialist state. It no longer exists except for the elites who within the country are amassing enormous wealth on the backs of the undereducated.
The problems that persist in the kingdom come from everbodies thirst for power and influence. Those at the top if they are as hard working as you say should maybe put some of that superiority into decentralising what they have built over the decades so as to spread the wealth.
I am not a stupid farang and my wife who is from the Isaan provinces works hard and saves with me for our future. She is able to see the benifits because she has opportunity and not just because shes married to me. In Australia she is employed for her knowledge and is paid accordingly. In Thailand it is very different. Thai people in general are in denial that they are controlled by a small percentage of their population. Many are in awe of their huge wealth and many follow in their footsteps of aquiring wealth outside of moral and ethical codes.
If the elites were true Buddhists with a sense of fairness they would respect the rural Thai who feed them.
Investing in their communities and schools would go a long way in changing the attitude of not thinking about tommorow.
Given the opportunity all Thais can prosper yet this is not part of the elites business plan. They will try and avoid any of the reforms put forward no matter how fair they seem and you will see the country go back to much the same way it was before. Nothing will change unless there is true social reform and acceptance of all Thais being free to participate democratically in the future of their country. For people to continue to say the rural classes are lazy is a cop out. What choices outside of the sufficiency method which is forced upon them do they have. The elites are certainly not going to follow this philosophy as why should they. They run the show.

[taurus]

Hi Taurus.
I dont deny the Chinese Thai are industrious, hard working and 'clever'. yes they have built the economy to what it is today.
They have also centralised power in the major capitals along with their businesses and factories.
If they were and ethical moral group they would encourage the benifits of a true democracy. Yet a true democracy has never taken a firm grip in the country. Decentralising the power away from the capitals may spread the wealth.
The elites are a mixture of Chinese/Thai and wealthy Ethnic Thai they lead all the major institutions in the kingdom. Those that govern take an oath in public office to serve the nation but in reality they serve themselves, their families and associates. This is their CLEVERNESS at work. Without the undereducated classes they would not of been able to amass this wealth. Industrious and hard working do not equal ethical and moral which is what is severly lacking.
Yes these rich families employ the masses. They also control how information and education is distributed throughout the kingdom. Its a feudal mentality that works in mainland China but is slowly changing people are now beginning to see the injustice especially in Communist China where the ideology has totally warped the notion of a equatable socialist state. It no longer exists except for the elites who within the country are amassing enormous wealth on the backs of the undereducated.
The problems that persist in the kingdom come from everbodies thirst for power and influence. Those at the top if they are as hard working as you say should maybe put some of that superiority into decentralising what they have built over the decades so as to spread the wealth.
I am not a stupid farang and my wife who is from the Isaan provinces works hard and saves with me for our future. She is able to see the benifits because she has opportunity and not just because shes married to me. In Australia she is employed for her knowledge and is paid accordingly. In Thailand it is very different. Thai people in general are in denial that they are controlled by a small percentage of their population. Many are in awe of their huge wealth and many follow in their footsteps of aquiring wealth outside of moral and ethical codes.
If the elites were true Buddhists with a sense of fairness they would respect the rural Thai who feed them.
Investing in their communities and schools would go a long way in changing the attitude of not thinking about tommorow.
Given the opportunity all Thais can prosper yet this is not part of the elites business plan. They will try and avoid any of the reforms put forward no matter how fair they seem and you will see the country go back to much the same way it was before. Nothing will change unless there is true social reform and acceptance of all Thais being free to participate democratically in the future of their country. For people to continue to say the rural classes are lazy is a cop out. What choices outside of the sufficiency method which is forced upon them do they have. The elites are certainly not going to follow this philosophy as why should they. They run the show.

There is no such thing as "true democracy" here , Not as long as these "clowns" up here in Issan are quite willing to sell their;s and their familys future down the tubes for 4 years at GE time to the likes of MULTI BILLIONAIRE "ELITE" Chinese Thai Thaksin for the price of 4 bottles of Rice whiskey , and I am still waiting for your answer as to what you class as "elite" ,do you mean successful business person? could you please enlighten me , which by the way was frowned upon in Lenins Russia,Mao's China ,and Pol pots Cambodia ,and just look where it got them, we need successful business people like never before due to the world recession, ,but according to your left wing ideals to want success Is somehow a crime against Humanity ,Only successful business people employ people, Paupers employ no one ,or would you prefer that everyone be paupers?

[Aussie John]

Taurus.
i thought I answered your question concerning 'Thai elites' They are a combination of Chinese/Thai and wealthy Ethnic Thai.
I am not anti capitalist. Two years ago I helped a Thai student with his Masters studies his core research area was Operations Management. One of the important things I learnt from the research was the importance of cross cultural teams. This is where more responsabilty is given from the top into the lower areas of management. Opportunity is thus given lower down in the company so as to expand the wealth base through dispersion of responsabilty into teams. This approach doesn't seem to work in Thailand where many Thai companies are family controlled with top bottom management leaving little room for professional development. Team work is a foreign concept.
With the amount of monopolies in the country new methods of business management are usually ignored as why should they worry when they have the markets to themselves. Thaksin was a master at manipulating this form of business practice. He did'nt learn it on his own. He just got too greedy so they got rid of him.
You keep emphasising the negatives in the issan people and no positves. Not all isaan people are useless as you seem to think. People buy the vote all over Thailand not just Isaan. they've been doing it for decades it's just like paying bribes to get things done faster or to avoid the law.
I will state again if those that govern were to reform the education system and actual introduce infrastructure that benifited the rural people things in the long term would get better. I dont need to continue writing about these issues as many jounalists in the post are doing it for me. they are writing many articles not so disimilar to what I have written.
Why isnt that you dont have a go at what they see as the truth in terms of the injustices and double standards the Thai elite keep over the rural masses.

[taurus]

Taurus.
i thought I answered your question concerning 'Thai elites' They are a combination of Chinese/Thai and wealthy Ethnic Thai.
I am not anti capitalist. Two years ago I helped a Thai student with his Masters studies his core research area was Operations Management. One of the important things I learnt from the research was the importance of cross cultural teams. This is where more responsabilty is given from the top into the lower areas of management. Opportunity is thus given lower down in the company so as to expand the wealth base through dispersion of responsabilty into teams. This approach doesn't seem to work in Thailand where many Thai companies are family controlled with top bottom management leaving little room for professional development. Team work is a foreign concept.
With the amount of monopolies in the country new methods of business management are usually ignored as why should they worry when they have the markets to themselves. Thaksin was a master at manipulating this form of business practice. He did'nt learn it on his own. He just got too greedy so they got rid of him.
You keep emphasising the negatives in the issan people and no positves. Not all isaan people are useless as you seem to think. People buy the vote all over Thailand not just Isaan. they've been doing it for decades it's just like paying bribes to get things done faster or to avoid the law.
I will state again if those that govern were to reform the education system and actual introduce infrastructure that benifited the rural people things in the long term would get better. I dont need to continue writing about these issues as many jounalists in the post are doing it for me. they are writing many articles not so disimilar to what I have written.
Why isnt that you dont have a go at what they see as the truth in terms of the injustices and double standards the Thai elite keep over the rural masses.

Sorry John , you ain't answered the question by far just HOW did the people you describe become mega wealthy and "elite" like the CP foods family one of the richest familys in Thailand who employ (exploit in your case) 350,000 People world wide , was it just handed on a plate to them or did it take 9 decades of hard work to achieve what they have today?? ,of course if it causes some embarrassment by giving me a straight answer forget it ,please read the link provided (in its entirety) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charoen_Pokphand , they achieved this through sheer hard work,forward planning and business acumen ,now they are wealthy "elites" which you appear to detest so much , so are they to be admired and congratulated for their successes in life or castigated (the socialists way) for "exploiting" 350,000 people

[Aussie John]

Taurus
I read the link in its entirety especially the last passage titled 'controversy' which you forgot to emphasise.
This group have obvious influence in Thai politics as the passage quotes especially with the corrupt tycoon Thaksin.
Yes they started from humble beginnings yet without the huge rural population where would they be. I can imagine way back in the twenties what rural wages were. It would'nt of been much. Probably subsistence. Yet these hard working up and coming elites were giving back as they went along their merry wealthy way. Yeah right!
Its no use arguing these points with you on the double standards of Thai elites even if they are highly connected, clever, manipulative and yes quite industrious and not to forget hard working as you keep telling me.
They hold and enforce through massive wealth many of the monopolies that are holding the kingdom back but you'd call this hard working.
Thai elites are above the law they are a major contributor to the real double standards that exist in the country and unless something changes there will be more cival unrest.
Or maybe your going to suggest bring Thaksin back to work as their CEO.

[drake]

I am not anti capitalist.

555555555
John, my buddy in Amsterdam would consider you a fellow "red in the diaper socialist".
A Politruk Lenin would be proud of.


Go to On Nut and head east for about 25 clicks or so past the airport.
On the left side of the road, there is the Khlong Suan 100 years market @ 100E57.18 x 13N39.46.
Walk to the back, toward the canal.
There is an old hotel/shop that has been converted to the information center.
Go inside and read the story of the Chinese guy who found that market.

THAT is capitalism and hard work.

I know people of Isan don't have it easy but neither are of those scratching out their lives tapping the rubber in the South nor the guy who started Khlong Suan with nothing but shirt on his back a hundred some odd years ago.

Opportunity is thus given lower down in the company so as to expand the wealth base through dispersion of responsabilty into teams.

That is precisely the wealth distribution gibberish I keep hearing from my progressive (socialist) friends.

Team work is a foreign concept.

No it's not.
This particular style of team work is I, the boss, say do and YOU, the pion, do.
I worked hard to get to where I am, the owner of THIS company.
And you are ?
If you know better than me, why haven't you gone and start your own company already ?

THAT, in contrast to modern western style teamwork where the boss, the team leader who can't find his <posterior anatomy> with both hands and a power point presentation, sits around and pick and choose ideas of others then pushes the lamest one from to the brown nosers on the 5 years plan then blames everyone else when it fails.
Is that the one you are talking about ?

Thaksin was a master at manipulating this form of business practice.

Sorry, while Thaksin came from old money and rank, he didn't engage in Thai Style business,
he engaged in the Sicilian style of business.
You know, do me this one favour......or else.

Not all isaan people are useless as you seem to think.

You are right there.
Back in the mid 80s I met a guy from Korat, short and dark, not a hint of Chinese in his look or name,
a local Isan guy through and through.
He was running a computer hardware business in Houston, Texas, and was trying to expand in to China.
Oddly, he distant himself the moment I told him I have govt. contacts in BKK and spent a few summers in Korat myself.
Not too distant though as he was employing one of my buddy, a 4th gen Irish-Texan from Laredo, as his attorney.
After a few years of partying hardy with the company's money, it went busted.
Not too worry, he next tried to boot up an Aviation repair depot and spare part service, in Brunai.
He hired my buddy back and drugged him over there as the corporate counselor.
After about a year of partying with new company money, it went belly up, again.
The dude skipped to Korat in the dark of night and stranded my buddy in Brunai with no $$ and no plane ticket home.

You are right there, the people of Isan know how to scam the system just as good as any Chinese.
Just go ask your Kamnan how much money he skimmed off the community projects (which was paid for by tax monies,
of course).

Round here we say, the only people complaining about class disparity are the ones who aint got.