Is the Thai education responsible?

[MonkeyP]

There's an assumption in many of these posts that 'progress' is a good thing. Unexamined assumptions are not always good things. One of Thailand's principal attractions are its rural backwaters. Another is the way 'progress' in the urban centers is so gimcrack and hand-me-down. If Thai education is responsible, then I'm all for it.

[drake]

<fifo>

Ah now we are nearing the solution to the current problem, I feel. The students just don't care, or do they?

I think your answer to that was 'some do, too many don't' ? The next logical question to that is 'WHY' ?

Now let us look at maths and science. When a whole class of maths students on an International program cannot understand angles and triangles, surely it is time to look at the teacher and ask why! And look at any science lab in any school in Thailand and all you see is books. Where are the experiments? Sometimes these subjects are better taught outside the classroom; angles and triangles for instance. And experiments should be an ongoing thing in everyday life.
Students must want to go to school to learn, it is up to the teacher to make the lesson interesting enough to gain and keep the students attention.
Sadly none of this happens, or rarely does, and the fault is with not only the teachers, but the Basic Education Department, the Education Department and the Universities.

No quibbling on that.
While the material (basic math/science) hasn't changed much the teaching methodology is in dire need of resurrection.
For the amount of money the Govt. had spent on surveys and windowdressing they could have licensed several animated video learning course from US or UK.

Ask how many subjects a student learns in a day; the answer is normally 12 to 15 depending on the school. Is this too many? Yes, when you consider the students are being taught a new subject called "morals" by people who have none.
If you budding history buffs could only see what is being taught in Thai schools today you would cringe. Why not ask any Thai student what he understands about coups and you'll understand what I am talking about.
And consider why a student would learn applied physics when they are doing an arts degree, surely that is a waste of time?

I would like to point out that things aren't that much different in other country...

Personally I think the whole system is beyond repair, the question is, how can it be fixed?

It's my long standing position that in most issues the problems are not technical but rather the people.
To be specific, the people in charge and the people who aren't performing.
The solution to this problem is there but the will to get it done, no matter what it takes, isn't.
Just look at the GT200 fiasco.
But let's not dig up the dead.

And I haven't even touched on brainwashing yet.

Please, let's not, we'll be here forever !

Perhaps Thai women wish to improve themselves more than Thai men, however, the students that I know, both male and female all say the same thing; the class size is too big, the teacher cannot teach and what he/she does teach they don't understand. When students get to that stage, where their brains are no longer piqued, they get bored and fail to concentrate. This happens all over the world.

A little while back there was this cartoon series in the US called the Animaniacs, very popular in the age group of 3 to 35. Many episodes were loaded with real information in a very entertaining way.
For instance, this segment focous on brain parts - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li5nMsXg1Lk
Soon pre-school kids were running around reciting brain parts in a song.
Another episode, the 50 US states and capitals - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNUDDaEOvuY
Nations Of The World - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDtdQ8bTvRc
Ballad of Magellan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM-igYjn6E4
<darn, got those silly tunes stuck in my head now...>

Think about this, many of the children who watched this program got to first grade already knowing the brain parts, the 50 states, story of Magellan, and more - on their own.
Sadly, it's off the air now.

Teachers need to be paid a decent salary, until such time as that happens, 80% of them will never know their core subject because their salary will not attract the cream of Thai youth.
The government must look at the long term effect of education, then rectify the problems that already exist.
I would have thought that taking a group of students to say; an art gallery, museum, factory, etc would have been more beneficial than sitting bored in a classroom.
Students are supposed to learn useful subjects that will help them advance through life, not a daily lecture on morals by teachers that have none.

So why don't we just delegate the basics to some animated entertainment program instead ?
Strictly hard data and no ideology.
If it's Munz enough the kiddies will watch it on their own.
Oh, nevermind, I can hear the lynch mob from the Teachers Union pounding on my door...

[drake]

Largely, apart from the fact that Thailand started her industrialisation programme later than Taiwan or Korea, the focuss has been too much on foreign direct investment. Take the auto industry, none of the cars produced are Thai brand, although a lot more Thai are now hired into higher level work in R&D, but having a no locally owned brand can only go so far.
Korea's car industry produces Korean brands like Hyundai, KIA etc. Only suppliers to the industry is locally owned in Thailand and even that is a fraction of it. When Japanese firms come abroad, they come with the whole chain of operations, from supplier of basic materials, manufacturing to PR. Well, if you have read it, Thailand only wanted to be Detroit of Asia while I agree that it makes some money, look at Detroit now. Taiwan also has a very strong electronic and computing industry and they have internationally exported brands.

Without drifting in to the history of Hyundai,Tata, and the Taiwanese/Chinese computer houses, I must say that a national economic policy is meaningless if the players won't go along and in a free society we can't force them. OTOH, the companies can't get ahead if the government is oppressive.
But aren't we are wading in to the economics department here ?

While it is hard to generalise that culture at national level I have to fully agree with you that at smaller level, lets say between Universities there is a difference in the culture which really produces different level of graduates.
Take for example, the worldly knowned M.I.T, through the culture of the institution and obvious high calibur of incoming students and even higher calibur graduates , we all agree that it can take on the world in terms of the number of "exceptions" that it seems to produce; nobel prizer winners, inventors, hackers, entrepreneurs and all that. One can say that the incoming students were into that sort of thing anyway, but we must not dismiss the fact that the institute also officially support these sort of endeavours. Such support include things like giving 50,000$ for Invention Prize, having the world's first Undergraduate Research Experience Porgram, bringing in other entrepreneurs, inventors and leaders in the world to give them courage and moral support that it can be done , all the way to having a program for getting venture capitalists to support "MIT startups"
Now when you look at results of what they have achieved, it is no fluke, the school created and sustained a culture which allows those exceptional people to prosper and pursue their endeavours. How could they acheive it ? again it is an interplay between the US Government, industries and money pouring in from both sectors, something around 10 billion USD per year.

So, we are in agreement then that CULTURE has quite a great deal to do with education ?

[drake]

drake,
There are a number of areas, in all schools, that can be fixed easily. The morning assembly is one, but that will never be fixed because it is the root cause of the exercise of power. For 40 minutes each day, sometimes longer, students must listen to the same speech by the same teacher, after they have bowed to a piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze, sung a patriotic song, and stood to attention, for what, they have no idea, and bowed to a long dead deity. So that area cannot be touched, because it is forbidden and the root of the teachers' power.

So, I'm familiar with the morning assembly for the National Anthem but not this 40 minutes ordeal.
Reminds me of this large computer assembly house in China I visited a few years back.
20 minutes of indoctrination and exercise before each shift commences.

The next area is teachers themselves and teachers' colleges; let us look at the colleges. Firstly there are not enough, secondly they do not teach how to impart knowledge, thirdly they stifle creativity and finally they fail to reinforce the subject that the teacher will teach. So who is to blame, is it the teachers or the Education Department?
The mindset of total control, "you will think what I tell you to think" is long gone, with students having access to the internet, in Bangkok at least, but the teachers either fail to realise this or choose to ignore it totally. Tests are not only a test of the students knowledge, but also a test of the teacher imparting that knowledge. Until such time as the teachers realise that fundamental fact, (instead of giving pass marks to make themselves look good), the Thai education system is busted.

Imparting knowledge, to a large degree, is an art.
Rubber stamps is what's we've got.
The sad part is that this problem isn't unique to Thailand.
The educational system is managed by bureaucrats who hasn't a clue about the subject matter and what we see here is the direct result. Before rounding up the usual suspects and lining them up we should examine WHO is actually responsible for making the mess and deal with that accordingly.
But nobody may lose face
Dare I use that C word again ?
Is culture the problem here ?

So, what's the solution ?
Gut the whole thing and start over ?
Me, I'm voting for the Animaniacs.

[drake]

Which is the correct answer to this question: Mary was raped by a boy, why was she raped? 1. Mary was the most liked female student at school. 2. Mary liked boys. 3. Mary was raped by a boy. 4. It was Mary's fault. 5. Mary was too young to like boys.

The answer was #6 - The Bureaucrats did it to prove that she's no lady-boy.

I hate to be a stuck record.
The problem is not a technical one. The technical issues are very easy to resolve but the people who runs the system has no inclination to deal with it in proper and efficient manner -if at all.
I don't care if these people who are responsible were given PhD in anything or everything by god, they are still bungling bureaucrats. Met too many clueless top level managements in my days, they have no idea what is going on in the trench or just simply ignoring it all.

While we agree on most parts, I don't believe that the underlying issue is strictly about the control of the population.
To me, it looks more like nepotism gone wild.