Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby Voice on Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:23 am

Hi beau58 an accent or dialect shouldn’t be an obstacle for anyone. In England we do have people with strong accents but it doesn’t stop them from equal opportunity. So I don’t see why Thailand should be any different. It should matter which part of the country they come from they all Thai therefore everything should be equal. It not just the accents or dialect of people that make them different it more like class divide that they has separate people.
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby beau58 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:26 pm

Voice wrote:Hi beau58 an accent or dialect shouldn’t be an obstacle for anyone. In England we do have people with strong accents but it doesn’t stop them from equal opportunity. So I don’t see why Thailand should be any different. It should matter which part of the country they come from they all Thai therefore everything should be equal. It not just the accents or dialect of people that make them different it more like class divide that they has separate people.


It's more to do with the general lack of desire and drive to make the effort to learn to speak another language, properly, even their own.

Also, they are not actually all Thai. That's the point I was trying to make. My Isaan girfriend more often than not says, Thai culture is not her culture, as things are done quite differently from Thai culture where she comes from.
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby Voice on Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:42 pm

Beau58 wrote “It's more to do with the general lack of desire and drive to make the effort to learn to speak another language, properly, even their own.

Also, they are not actually all Thai. That's the point I was trying to make. My Isaan girfriend more often than not says, Thai culture is not her culture, as things are done quite differently from Thai culture where she comes from.



Lacking the desire or lacking opportunity beau58? What I think happen in Thailand is to do with lacking opportunity rather a desire to better themselves. Poverty and hardship has a lot to do with not able to advance themselves. As the old say you cannot teach the old god a new trick or you cannot bend the old tree like you do with small one. Please look at America now there is more Hispanic now who prefer to speak their own language rather than American English plus what make America anyway the whole country is full of mixture with different background and culture so why Thailand should be any different. It’s not where we came from it the home that makes our country. As for your girlfriend I think she needs more sympathy & understanding rather than refuse to understand her problem. Not everyone is a genius sooner or later she will pick up the language if you have patience for her.

beau58 you have to make it more fun for her to learn the language bed time is good and I am sure you will enjoy it too.
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby beau58 on Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:07 am

Voice

No offence. But, you completely miss the point, and I suspect you know little about Thailand or Thai culture(s), judging from your remarks.

It is a very well known fact that most people in this country, especially those upcountry have little interest in learning English. It is also a well known fact that upcountry people, especially in Isaan have little interest or belief in education, which as I stated in an earlier post is the reason why Isaan has the highest drop-out rate in the country.

As for my girlfriend...I'm not sure how you gleaned from my remarks that she doesn't speak the language. Being well-brought-up and educated, she of course speaks her native Isaan-Lao and also speaks beautiful, melifluous Thai (quite opposite to the gutteral squawk of you average bargirl), and quite excellent English. Her comments about Thai culture not being her culture is an illustration of the fact that, customs vary widely throughout the country. Despite the best efforts of the Thai Establishment since 1932 to homogenize the country under one dominant culture and language, there are people outside the central "Thai" region who don't identify Thai culture and language, as their own.

Comparing the the cultural diversity (the "Cultural Melting-Pot") of America to that of Thailand is quite inaccurate on so many levels, not least because the cultures in Thailand are still all regional from a comparatively small area.
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby Voice on Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:23 am

Beau58 wrote “Voice

No offence. But, you completely miss the point, and I suspect you know little about Thailand or Thai culture(s), judging from your remarks.

It is a very well known fact that most people in this country, especially those upcountry have little interest in learning English. It is also a well known fact that upcountry people, especially in Isaan have little interest or belief in education, which as I stated in an earlier post is the reason why Isaan has the highest drop-out rate in the country.

As for my girlfriend...I'm not sure how you gleaned from my remarks that she doesn't speak the language. Being well-brought-up and educated, she of course speaks her native Isaan-Lao and also speaks beautiful, melifluous Thai (quite opposite to the gutteral squawk of you average bargirl), and quite excellent English. Her comments about Thai culture not being her culture is an illustration of the fact that, customs vary widely throughout the country. Despite the best efforts of the Thai Establishment since 1932 to homogenize the country under one dominant culture and language, there are people outside the central "Thai" region who don't identify Thai culture and language, as their own.

Comparing the the cultural diversity (the "Cultural Melting-Pot") of America to that of Thailand is quite inaccurate on so many levels, not least because the cultures in Thailand are still all regional from a comparatively small area.


Don’t worry you haven’t offence me in anyway in fact I am glad that you think I am foreigner because we cannot judge a book by it cover. Well I am Thai and always have been since fifty odd years ago. I think I have to disagree with you there about I ssan people have no interest in learning. When I was in Korat once they know I speak English they all love to learn more about the language and most of Issan girl that I met. If your girlfriend can speaks good Thai and English but if she want to be different then it her choice. If she talking about her culture not being the same I thinks she hasn’t been honest with you there.
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby beau58 on Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:09 am

Voice

My appologies for making an assumption about you.

However, I stand by my conviction that people in Isaan are generally not interested in education. Parents their seldom support their children going much beyond Mor 3 and would rather they simply went out and worked. While universities and therefore university attendance has increased dramatically in Isaan, it still falls well short of the national average.

I'm not some rooky either. If you have read my earlier posts you will know I was a professor in Thailand for 13 years (Chula, Thammasat, Bangkok U.) and one of my specialties is Thai culture and society, which I have researched in depth. My knowledge and therefore comments are not merely anecdotal, but based on solid research, information and experience.

By the way, my GF's comments are not isolated. I have heard the attitude that "Thai culture is not my culture" many times from people outside the central region. Part of this has to do with the fact that large portions of the country (such as the north) were foreceably annexed by the central Thais. However, the people in the north still think of themselves first and foremost as "Lanna" rather than "Thai".
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby taurus on Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:56 am

beau58 wrote:Voice

My appologies for making an assumption about you.

However, I stand by my conviction that people in Isaan are generally not interested in education. Parents their seldom support their children going much beyond Mor 3 and would rather they simply went out and worked. While universities and therefore university attendance has increased dramatically in Isaan, it still falls well short of the national average.

I'm not some rooky either. If you have read my earlier posts you will know I was a professor in Thailand for 13 years (Chula, Thammasat, Bangkok U.) and one of my specialties is Thai culture and society, which I have researched in depth. My knowledge and therefore comments are not merely anecdotal, but based on solid research, information and experience.

By the way, my GF's comments are not isolated. I have heard the attitude that "Thai culture is not my culture" many times from people outside the central region. Part of this has to do with the fact that large portions of the country (such as the north) were foreceably annexed by the central Thais. However, the people in the north still think of themselves first and foremost as "Lanna" rather than "Thai".
Obviously yours is the voice of experience and I for one agree entirely with your opinions , A good friend of mine's wife who teaches English at a senior level in one of our nearby schools informs me that absenteeism amongst the male pupils is rampant , where many seem to have a lackadaisical attitude to further their education , I often read how the youth of today is neglected up here in Issan , but having lived here in Buri ram province for well nigh 7 years IMHO this statement rings somewhat hollow ,as the old saying go's "YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE IT DRINK" And in closing of course I only relate to my area (Issan's a big place) :cheers: :cheers:
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby Voice on Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:09 pm

No need to apologies beau58 I do understand what you said about the general lack of interest and conviction and dropout in Thai education. It just likes the situation here in England where most Black children do quite badly at school and they have opportunity here with free schooling. It could be something to do with the genetic makeup but I think Thailand problem is much more complex then just genetic makeup. As we all carried our parent gene so we will have some of their personality makeup too. If one of the parent good with number and another is good at talking the children could turn out to be quite good as a salesman. I also notice that the second child always taller than the first child. Sorry I just out of topic there but in the same token we have to look at why some people behave differently from area to area and region to region. In Thailand the education is much more to do with culture of dictation and custom which make it harder to change. I think the culture of making excuse is ways of avoiding thing rather join in single culture. It just making excuse at they doesn’t want to do.
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby Rasken on Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:14 am

As many of you have said, Isan is a big area. I guess you find all kinds there too, but may be they in some respect have a different approach to education than people from other parts of Thailand. Then it is interesting to find out why it is so.
In my country (Norway) there has been some research about this issue. It seems that your fathers profession is playing an important role in whether you take an education and if you do: the kind of eduction. Education has been an important part of my countrys plan for bringing equality to all people, but so far they have failed. Education are often based on the values of the middle class people. Many people from the working class find it hard to indentify them self with such values, therefor they struggle more then children coming from middle calls or higher. It has nothing to do with genes or lack of intelligence, it is most of the time a result of class and with whom you identify yourself with. Also can we se that people from lower classes don't get adequate jobs after qualifying, that too send a signal to some that education is waste of time.
Yes, there will always be some who make it, but induviduals is of no significance when we will enlight this kind of issue. It is the matter of big numbers that counts. I read many posts in this tread like "I know someone.." "I have seen this and that..", all fear enough, but doesn't function to explain a social problem.
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Re: Do you speak English Khun Noy?

Postby prommee_NE on Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:02 am

beau58 wrote:
No offence. But, you completely miss the point, and I suspect you know little about Thailand or Thai culture(s), judging from your remarks.

It is a very well known fact that most people in this country, especially those upcountry have little interest in learning English. It is also a well known fact that upcountry people, especially in Isaan have little interest or belief in education, which as I stated in an earlier post is the reason why Isaan has the highest drop-out rate in the country.


I am in complete disagreement with you on this one...It is not that the children of Isaan have little interest in learning,,,but many of the teachers have little interest in teaching!...I am not surprised about the high drop-out rates because of it. When I was first introduced to the "English Teacher" in the village I have frequented over the last 12 years, I did not know he was speaking English...my wife translated for me! When relatives with their children came up to the village from South BKK in August, their children (5 & 9) spoke good English and shocked many village children with their vocabulary and pronunciation...only a select few have been taught by me in the village (8 nieces and 1 nephew)...Four of the nieces were kicked out of the school for knowing English too well! Those four nieces now get paid more than the teachers, having found work in BKK!

That is not the only subject...Geography is sadly lacking and when I questioned the teachers, they told me that only Thai geography is part of the curriculum...I showed a map of the world to 12-15 year olds and none of them picked out the UK correctly..nor the USA and nor Australia....in fact they could not pick out Vietnam or Cambodia or China from the map. They were all shocked when they saw how small the UK was and how big the USA was.

I taught several subjects independently of the school (I am not allowed to teach because, although I have the qualifications, I do not have a work visa)...I found that in general the children picked up new information readily and without difficulty...at first it was difficult to get them to question anything, preferring to just listen and regurgitate. However, when I made them each to be teacher of Thai to me that soon changed. They empathised with the difficulty of teaching what they knew and it was not long before they realised they were picking up English much quicker than I was picking up Thai (although my Laos improved considerably).

No doubt you will consider I know nothing of Isaan and am a mere farang...However, I will counter that argument with you knowing nothing about the lack of teaching skills in many Isaan villages.
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