Do you speak English Khun Noy?

[Aussie John]

Everyone has the ability to learn no matter where they live in the world. In deepest Africa students are bi-lingual in both their native language and that of English.
To say rural Thais are ignorant and uneducated is highly arrogrant especially by the likes of PAD who support this ideology as a means of retaining Thailands' double standards and of course having a huge cheap labour force who do not question authority.
Thailand's education system needs massive reform especially in the provinces where rote learning is firmly entrenched.
Critcal thinking which is trulluy needed in schools goes against the sociat construct of not questioning authority, yet without it the whole country can't develop progressively.
English is a global language yet due to the nature of Thai nationalist propaganda it is viewed as uneccessary and in many respects a threat to the kind of Thai social culture that those that control the economy would prefer to maintain as it is an effective method of control.
Social conditioning has left the rural provinces under resourced in terms of quality education but yet you wont have the the centralised powers trying to reform the system as the system relies on these very people to keep their profits high.
Everyone has the ability to succeed if the right kind of environment is provided.

[prommee_NE]

A light-hearted aside:

The family has a minor bird that is very good at mimicking Laos...His favourite one-liner is "guests coming" whenever someone approaches the front gate,

When my 4 year-old niece was "teacher" and I got my pronunciation of "ng" (at the start of a word) wrong for the umpteenth time...she looked at me in despair and said: "You really are stupid...even the bird can speak better Thai than you!!"...There is nothing like the innocence of a child to make you feel really stupid!

[ari>unchern]

The reason most Thai women want to marry Farung is for purely financial gain, love never be part of it except for only a few phrase: Me love you long time, Me love you forever, My father is sick need hospital.
The reason Western men wants to retire in Thailand is value for money. They would be Mr average in the West or might even be Mr nobody. £15,000-20,000 / year pension is not enough to have a comfortable life in UK, also most of the men are a loner or weird. I wish both side stop moan, complain asking for simpathy. Just do whatever you people want to do, to get whatever you want to get. If you Western sad men get rip off by Thai women it is not her fault, It's yours. For Thai women please don't say you love him long time, love him forever. Love has got nothing to do with it, be honest.

[beau58]

beau58 wrote:
No offence. But, you completely miss the point, and I suspect you know little about Thailand or Thai culture(s), judging from your remarks.

It is a very well known fact that most people in this country, especially those upcountry have little interest in learning English. It is also a well known fact that upcountry people, especially in Isaan have little interest or belief in education, which as I stated in an earlier post is the reason why Isaan has the highest drop-out rate in the country.

I am in complete disagreement with you on this one...It is not that the children of Isaan have little interest in learning,,,but many of the teachers have little interest in teaching!...I am not surprised about the high drop-out rates because of it. When I was first introduced to the "English Teacher" in the village I have frequented over the last 12 years, I did not know he was speaking English...my wife translated for me! When relatives with their children came up to the village from South BKK in August, their children (5 & 9) spoke good English and shocked many village children with their vocabulary and pronunciation...only a select few have been taught by me in the village (8 nieces and 1 nephew)...Four of the nieces were kicked out of the school for knowing English too well! Those four nieces now get paid more than the teachers, having found work in BKK!

That is not the only subject...Geography is sadly lacking and when I questioned the teachers, they told me that only Thai geography is part of the curriculum...I showed a map of the world to 12-15 year olds and none of them picked out the UK correctly..nor the USA and nor Australia....in fact they could not pick out Vietnam or Cambodia or China from the map. They were all shocked when they saw how small the UK was and how big the USA was.

I taught several subjects independently of the school (I am not allowed to teach because, although I have the qualifications, I do not have a work visa)...I found that in general the children picked up new information readily and without difficulty...at first it was difficult to get them to question anything, preferring to just listen and regurgitate. However, when I made them each to be teacher of Thai to me that soon changed. They empathised with the difficulty of teaching what they knew and it was not long before they realised they were picking up English much quicker than I was picking up Thai (although my Laos improved considerably).

No doubt you will consider I know nothing of Isaan and am a mere farang...However, I will counter that argument with you knowing nothing about the lack of teaching skills in many Isaan villages.

I accept a lot of what you say, as it is your experience. But, I suspect it may be the exception, rather than the rule.
It’s true that I am not an expert on teaching skills in Isaan, as I was only a Farang university professor in Bangkok for 13 years and never taught up-country. I also did work for the MoE (a frustrating experience, I might add) and am aware of many issues in education throughout the country. My comments about lack of interest in education in Isaan etc. are not anecdotal, but based on research. Despite your 12 years of frequenting ONE village in Isaan, upon which you based your entire rebuttal of my comments, you are still only a visitor with very limited experience, and certainly no broad or professional experience.
You’re mistaken. Isaan teachers, and indeed Thai teachers in general are interested in teaching. It’s just that they are the products of a broken and out-moded system, poorly trained and poorly paid, who simply don’t know any different way to teach than, the one-dimensional, absolutist approach of rote learning.
It makes learning boring, and students anxious to leave school. Add to this the overt pressure from largely poor farmer parents who see little value in education, when they need their children to work as soon as possible to help out with family finances, and you have the large drop-out rate one sees in Isaan. This of course, then perpetuates the cliche Isaan native with no future, because of lack of sufficient educational credentials.

[beau58]

The reason most Thai women want to marry Farung is for purely financial gain, love never be part of it except for only a few phrase: Me love you long time, Me love you forever, My father is sick need hospital.
The reason Western men wants to retire in Thailand is value for money. They would be Mr average in the West or might even be Mr nobody. £15,000-20,000 / year pension is not enough to have a comfortable life in UK, also most of the men are a loner or weird. I wish both side stop moan, complain asking for simpathy. Just do whatever you people want to do, to get whatever you want to get. If you Western sad men get rip off by Thai women it is not her fault, It's yours. For Thai women please don't say you love him long time, love him forever. Love has got nothing to do with it, be honest.

What a ridiculous generalization.

You're obviously Thai and have a chip on your shoulder.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Farang in Thailand are somebodies back home, too, and neither loners nor weird. All my Farang friends are professionals, highly successful and have chosen to stay in Thailand because they happen to like the country, not because they have nowhere else to go. All, (myself included) have educated girlfriends/wives who speak excellent English, have good jobs and don't need Farang money.

And..."love him long time" Really? Who says that? You've been watching too many bad Hollywood movies about Thai bargirls.

[prommee_NE]

I accept a lot of what you say, as it is your experience. But, I suspect it may be the exception, rather than the rule.
It’s true that I am not an expert on teaching skills in Isaan, as I was only a Farang university professor in Bangkok for 13 years and never taught up-country. I also did work for the MoE (a frustrating experience, I might add) and am aware of many issues in education throughout the country. My comments about lack of interest in education in Isaan etc. are not anecdotal, but based on research. Despite your 12 years of frequenting ONE village in Isaan, upon which you based your entire rebuttal of my comments, you are still only a visitor with very limited experience, and certainly no broad or professional experience.
You’re mistaken. Isaan teachers, and indeed Thai teachers in general are interested in teaching. It’s just that they are the products of a broken and out-moded system, poorly trained and poorly paid, who simply don’t know any different way to teach than, the one-dimensional, absolutist approach of rote learning.
It makes learning boring, and students anxious to leave school. Add to this the overt pressure from largely poor farmer parents who see little value in education, when they need their children to work as soon as possible to help out with family finances, and you have the large drop-out rate one sees in Isaan. This of course, then perpetuates the cliche Isaan native with no future, because of lack of sufficient educational credentials.

The part I have highlighted in red is the most interesting and I fully agree with it. Whilst I accept that I only know a certain region of NE Thailand, it encompasses a little more than one village...but I only needed a single example for a rebuttal of your previous post. However, I now realise you were referring to the people as a whole rather than the children when you mentioned that they had no interest in education. I apologise for any offence it may have caused.

The points you have raised about the cause of the drop-out and the lack of training and pay of the teaching staff are fully in line with the experience that I have had in the area. The children are however, quite capable and interested in learning if they are taught in a different manner (to rote learning) and are not subject to undue pressure from their parents to help work on the farm. This pressure is not the same as in the past (in the areas I have been) but I agree, it is still there to some extent...and a good excuse when learning is boring.

To say that the teachers are interested in teaching and then say that they use rote learning because of the lack of training is a little confusing to me...I understand what you mean but...

Another anecdotal example...The village school is always wanting donations...School meal funding is such that the annual money runs out within 6 - 9 months. Water is by rainfall collection in a couple of large tanks with no purification. My wife has provided musical instruments and sports equipment in the past but I wanted them to earn their donation in some way. I discussed an idea one year with the headmaster and a few teachers about doing a school project to make a water pump for the school pond to irrigate the vegetable plots that are popular with all rural schools. I gave them some plans of the water pumps built by NGOs in Cambodia, based on a simple rope pump design. It was agreed that if they built one, I would make a certain donation to the school and if they decided to have a competition, I would also have a prize for the best working design. All would be done to coincide with the School Open Day the following year. I explained the plans in detail and the teachers said they understood and there would be no problem. The headmaster questioned them several times and I explained I would be available to answer questions whilst there over the next fortnight and then by e-mail when I left. I heard nothing and when I arrived back the following year they had done nothing. The headmaster told me he raised it in School meetings often but there was always some excuse or other for putting the project off. Then to cap it all, they still asked me to provide the donation I had offered. I gave them an idea, I provided the plans, I gave an incentive but nothing happened. No they did not get the donation I offered...They got a couple of hundred school team wear instead.

I am interested in the research that was carried out and what conclusions were drawn from it. My personal experience has been that some very clever children have been left by the wayside because their parents have been unable to afford further education for them (as opposed to thinking education is not worthwhile). Others, with less ability have succeeded simply because their parents can afford the schooling. Personally, I would like to see scholarships for a few more of the brighter students being offered around. Perhaps the MoE should take up the idea....

One other point...No I do not have broad experience of education in Thailand...No I am not a professor...but I am a professional and one who teaches professionals rather than children.

[prommee_NE]

It has been stated that education is free, but the children are dragged away by parents to work, if they live in the nether regions.

I don't believe this is strictly true any more...at least not in any but the poorest regions. Education is recognised to be a good thing by many of the people I know in Isaan. School holidays also help by coinciding with the planting and harvest seasons in the single season crop regions...although there is always an overlap depending on where you are and the arrival of rain. Certainly they are asked to work over the week-end but if children miss days at school, the village headman is soon informed and there is a meeting with the parents and children in question. Some schools are very lax, others are more strict but the guidelines from central government are pretty good...if not enforced to the letter everywhere.

[beau58]

Re: Thai Education

I taught for 13 years at the elite unis: Chula, Thammasat, Bangkok U. and even the Royal College. While a smattering of innovation is happening in international programs, largely because they are taught by a siginificant number of Farang professors, the Thai programs, even at the best unis are mired in out-moded pedagogy and reactionary thinking and dogma. If the best schools in the country still follow the same old rigid path, what hope is there for the disadvantaged schools and unis upcountry?

What's worse, when Farang voice concern about methodology, make suggestions for improvements and try to implement them, they are viewed with suspicion, reprimanded by largely incompetent supervisors, and often sacked.

Personally, I have little hope for any real change in the educational status quo. One of the few Thai visionaries with whom I worked at the MoE said it would likely take at least 50 years before any noticeable improvements to the system would be made.

[Voice]

Beau58 wrote “What's worse, when Farang voice concern about methodology, make suggestions for improvements and try to implement them, they are viewed with suspicion, reprimanded by largely incompetent supervisors, and often sacked.

I can tell you why they don’t like it beay58 it isn’t you personally or your suggestion is bad what Thai teach or the head they just don’t like that some one else look good or better than them. Even though they haven’t got any idea they like to the first so any suggestion from some one else isn’t going to look good on them, that why you having problem with them. This is true Thai mentality they won’t say that are wrong so they prefer to teach you rather than learn from you. Having a degree doesn’t guarantee that you are much smarter than another people. For Thai who hold MA degree is all big M to them.

[saharat]

Maybe they could also take a thai language proficiency test also. many of the teachers i spoke with have said young thai's simply do not pronunciate pasa thai correctly. but instead prefer to use street slang.