Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Re: RE: RE: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby overhaul38 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:37 am

Ian wrote:I've never been completely sure about why exactly this "special" treatment exists.
I''ve never found it in Indonesia - for example - where I used to travel a lot.
Nor in Malaysia. Nor Singapore. Nor in Cambodia, Laos.
I can only compare it to Japanese racism - but Thais have always seemed far less rampantly racist that what one finds in Japan.


It is only a matter of a minor degree.
The prime similarities are:
1. Denial of citizenship. To my knowledge no farang has ever been granted Thai citizenship. Feel free to correct me if I am
wrong.
2. Denial of land ownership.
3. Special pricing at some facilities/markets.
4. Personal reporting requirement every 90 days. I don't know Japan's.
User avatar
overhaul38
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 7:00 am

Re: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby bystander on Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:22 am

Concerning Japan, when I lived there 8 years ago. Longer term foreigners were issued an identification card from their local city hall. The only time you had to report was if you had changes in employment, phone, address, etc.
User avatar
bystander
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:15 pm

Re: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby sym on Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:46 pm

To overhaul38, I don't know how you came up with the conclusion that no "farang" or foreigner has ever received Thai citizenship, but actually, you are wrong. I have heard reports of numerous "farangs" who have received Thai citizenship, however, since Thailand does not have a policy of multiculturalism in the western sense, few foreigners have attained Thai citizenship, however, it is certainly possible to attain it.

Although I only ever take opinions on any topic I see on the internet with a grain of salt as there is no way of knowing a poster's identity or truth in any statements they make, I have no reason to doubt that the foreigners on thaivisa.com who posted information about how they received Thai citizenship as farangs, did indeed achieve that status. It is a lengthy and very beaurocratic process, and while I don't personally know any westerners or other foreigners who have achieved Thai citizenship by naturalization (I only know numerous Luk Kreung or half Thai, half foreigner children who possess Thai nationality, but thats something else since these people usually possess Thai nationality by descent or birth, not by naturalization), I do believe that the CEO of the company that owns numerous foreign food brands, originally an American, has obtained Thai nationality (I can't remember his name, but a simple google search can reveal what it is). I have met him briefly once before in 2008, and even I don't understand why he was speaking English instead of Thai with some other top Thai executives he was with at the time since if you are a Thai citizen, then you must be able to speak Thai, right?
User avatar
sym
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby sym on Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 pm

On the discrimination or special pricing matter, there are many ways of looking at it. I generally only encounter it at places which have a clear policy of dual pricing, typically national parks and some "tourist" temples and the like. Occassionally, especially at less popular attractions, waving a Thai driver's license or the like generally does get you the local's price and has worked for me before, but it doesn't work everywhere and probably wouldn't work at the Grand Palace for example.

Although I recognize that people do get ripped off when buying merchandise on the street or at markets, I am surprised by comments such as "foreigners pay more for noodles on the street." I have never encountered this before. Quite often the price is displayed on the cart or occassionally there is a menu with clear cut prices of the meals they serve. Why then, would they charge you extra? I have never heard of overcharging for eating at a restaurant before, given that there is no such thing as a menu with a price for foreigners and another price for Thais. Correct me if I'mbig wrong, but this would be NEWS to me. I also don't think it makes a difference if you can speak Thai or not in the case of the noodles on the street scenario.

In the case of buying stuff at markets, prices can and do go down if you speak Thai (well and without a noticeable accent). Relatively few foreigners can do this, but I can and do speak fluent Thai. One of the few, but certainly one of the biggest problems I have with Thailand is that a small number of racist locals, note that their numbers are very small and only other foreigners who speak very good and fluent Thai like me would know what I'm talking about, is that they prefer to speak English with us because they think that speaking "their" language with a foreigner would be "weird." So much for those language classes which are supposed to make us become more familiar with the language and culture so we can integrate better into Thai society! And no, I am not talking about Thais initially speaking English with a visible foreigner on the presumption that those foreigners can't speak Thai. I'm talking about Thais who refuse to speak Thai even when they know the foreigner can speak good Thai, and even more strangely, many of those people can't even speak good English! I don't even deal with those people and just go away from them. I can't accept such blatant discrimination, period. It's just a language for gods sake!! In China people are proud of their language, and few people would ever do such a thing, but in Thailand attitudes seem different, well at least amongst those few Thais I have met who have done that to me.
User avatar
sym
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby sym on Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:12 pm

I am also surprised by posts such as dual pricing for haircuts. In all the years I have either traveled in and out of Thailand or lived there, I have never encountered this either. Mind you, I always go for the ritzy 200 Baht salon places, which only have one price for all, so I am simply not aware of barbers charging different prices for different groups of people. If this is really the case, then Thailand must be the only place that I have heard of doing such practices.

On the other hand, for some reason I usually get haircuts in Cambodia, Vietnam etc. even if I'm only in those countries for a short border run or business trip rather than Thailand. I suppose it comes down to the fact that I like change and it's a bit boring doing the same thing all the time (like getting a haircut in Thailand), which explains why I like doing these things in other countries...and I don't feel I would ever have gotten ripped off in those places either. I think it's more likely that some hairdressers in Thailand (and elsewhere) would try to get you to pay for extra "services" such as getting your ears cleaned etc. so instead of a 200 Baht haircut and shampoo, you end up paying 500-1000 Baht. Again, this doesn't happen everywhere (perhaps more likely in the tourist areas, since upcountry places wouldn't be as used to serving or expecting to serve foreigners).

Also, like many posters here (including tourists and residents of Thailand and neighboring countries), I feel it's not about how much we get charged for something. I would be more than happy paying 400 Baht for a haircut (at a place that charges everyone the same) than a place that charges 200 for a foreigner and only 150 for a Thai, or 4000 Baht for a 5-star hotel rather than one that offers me a 3000 Baht deal but where locals pay either less (say, 2000 Baht, or more, say 5000 Baht) and knowing that everyone gets treated fairly. It's not about paying less than a local; it's about everyone paying the same and getting the same treatment, not better, not worse, just the same.
User avatar
sym
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby sym on Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:34 pm

Lastly, Thailand is quite different in relation to some of its neighbors in its attitudes towards tourism and foreigners. It feels very international in the tourist areas and you get the impression that Thailand is just some kind of "tourist theme park", not just for westerners but equally for Chinese, Japanese, Korean and even Arab tourists. You also get the sense of Thais not only sometimes treating foreigners better than locals (and sometimes either charging foreigners more, or occassionally less than Thais depending on the service) but also I do concur with the poster who mentioned that some motorcycle rental shops won't rent motorcycles out to Thais on the presumption that the Thais will either steal, or more likely, deface the bike and thus require either a hefty deposit to insure against that risk, or not rent it out to them altogether. Again, the point is not whether or not this is true. It is a stereotype, but even if there is some truth to it, you can not lump everyone into one group. So therefore discrimination can occur both towards the locals or foreigners.

The best way I have of dealing with official dual pricing is by not using those services; other people may deal with it in different ways. Let's face it, we don't need to go to national parks, just go to some public beach or some other scenic spot outside of a national park instead and you won't have to pay anything and you'll probably have just as much fun. As for temples...whether you are interested in praying or not, I would say give the Grand Palace a miss since it's too touristy anyways (as grand and opulent as it may be) and head for smaller, local temples that don't charge any entrance fees. Make a donation of any amount (as Thais would do) and you'll feel much better and will be making a contribution to the local temple rather than a place that feels it needs to charge you extra for looking different. Also, it would help if national parks etc. at least asked for ID to verify a person's nationality. Not all tourists in Thailand are visible foreigners such as farang, believe it or not, even Vietnamese travel to Thailand as tourists! But one time when I went to a national park,even though I was speaking Thai with the rangers, but I went with my Vietnamese friend who was sleeping in my car and he got charged the local price, but not me!! I therefore felt even more violated given that I can speak Thai (and was resident in Thailand at the time, but my friend was simply a tourist) and yet he was afforded the same price as locals simply because he looks "similar." Anyone else know if they actually check people's IDs, say at the Grand Palace to verify nationality and therefore entitlement to lower or free admission? I mean, there are plenty of non-Thai Asians visiting the Grand Palace each day, so I wonder how they are dealt with; otherwise it would almost be a race issue if they were given locals prices for looking local and farang are not, despite perhaps being resident in the country.
User avatar
sym
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby MTT on Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:58 am

sym wrote:To overhaul38, I don't know how you came up with the conclusion that no "farang" or foreigner has ever received Thai citizenship, but actually, you are wrong. I have heard reports of numerous "farangs" who have received Thai citizenship, however, since Thailand does not have a policy of multiculturalism in the western sense, few foreigners have attained Thai citizenship, however, it is certainly possible to attain it.


I have been here 19 years and I have met two. Both married to Thai husbands. The first told me it was rather automatic for her at the time but the laws changed. The second was married to a man whose uncle was in politics, at one time the head of a political party, and during the eight years she worked on getting her citizenship the uncle held two different Minister positions as head of the two departments. She also now had his last name. She got her citizenship after she tutored (TOEFL) the son of a person who worked in the department which granted citizenships.

This second lady had many stories about her using the card. It usually boiled down to the fact that the person looking at her card always did a double take and scrutinized the card thoroughly. This was followed by questioning and usually a supervisor was called in to give final approval. Even Thais find it unbelievable.
User avatar
MTT
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 7:00 am

Re: RE: RE: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby billy01 on Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:14 pm

Ian wrote:I've never been completely sure about why exactly this "special" treatment exists.
I''ve never found it in Indonesia - for example - where I used to travel a lot.
Nor in Malaysia. Nor Singapore. Nor in Cambodia, Laos.
I can only compare it to Japanese racism - but Thais have always seemed far less rampantly racist that what one finds in Japan.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

ian, i think you need to open your eye a little when in Indonesia,Cambodia and Laos and you will see that you get "special" treatment many times over in these countries too
User avatar
billy01
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:13 pm

Re: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby awhkt on Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:02 am

VP wrote:The advertising board on the way to Airport is shown "Foreigner Zone.. Buying house (somewhere around Bangkok..) Foreigner, with Special Price!!"

I know the property company may want to attract foreigners to invest in property in Thailand. But, what about Thais who also want to own the property in their own country but have to pay higher price than non-resident?



Well if it 20% higher anyway than a local price I guess it is a special farang price and I too would try to push it if I was a property company.
User avatar
awhkt
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:54 am

Re: Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

Postby attyusa on Sat May 07, 2011 2:32 pm

Perhaps it is because the foreigner does not actually own the property. As you know only 49% can be owned and the other 51% must be in a Thai national's name.
User avatar
attyusa
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 3:02 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Domestic / cross cultural issues - Thai / Foreigner concerns

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests