Back to court

[Voice]

Hi Absara You just been kind, yes I know what peace could do if we weren’t tried to conquer each other. Have you ever read article written by Voranai Vanijaka recently I read the reason why we have this PV thing. The title of this article is “Sarit sleight of hand still work and here is the link http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... till-works. In his opinion he think that the reason we have border conflict and back to court have to do with Nationalisation because we due to have a new election in Thailand and Cambodia. I kinda agree with you both but as for me it more about our history and our government. I knew why we lost our case and that had upset me more than the French interference. We should have prepared ourselves much better then. We were too overly confident but lack of many instruments to fight our case. And there were too much infighting to choose who would be our representative. If the Cambodia really wants to go back to court I think we should give ourselves the best shot. I don’t want us to go to war nor do I want our history to be written down as something else other fact. So I hope Ahbisit would do his best or else he better have good explanation as to why we have fails again.

[mutley]

Voice, I'm afraid I must take issue with certain remarks you made against Western judges. They are impartial and would not have taken sides on this matter but looked at the facts. I do not know whether or not you have ever been to the West but you would find that if you were involved in a traffic accident for instance, you would NOT automatically be guilty because you were a foreigner as foreigners here in Thailand are. I have travelled to over 40 countries in the world and chose Thailand to retire to but Thai law at best is not even as good as most arab countries. In Western courts,it doesn't matter how much money you have either, the facts are looked at and you are found guilty or not guilty purely on the facts. If there is any doubt whatever, at least in UK, then you are not guilty. The same goes for civil cases such as Thailand and Cambodia are involved in. It will be decided on the facts alone!

[dutchboy]

However sad it is, but going back to the International Court is not going to solve anything.

Thais already have no respects for their own laws and court rulings, never mind about International Laws and courts.

Unless Thailand gets what it wants, the border between Thailand and Cambodia will always be a "hot area". There are no ifs or buts about it.

The saddest thing of all this time around that all this is happening in the wake of elections, and PM Abhisit will be hard fought to explain that the current confrontation with Cambodian militairy has nothing to do with "pleasing" certain political backing groups, so he can ensure a new term as PM (which, for the sake of this country, should not happen).

[mutley]

Yes Dutchboy, you are definately right on the first two counts;the ICJ and the fact that Thais have no respect for their own laws . The third I'm not sure on. Maybe they will learn to accept decisiopns which go against them (not holding my breath though). Aphisit and the election? Does it matter who wins here? It will always be the case of the tail (the military) wagging the dog (parliament) instead of the other way around as in western countries. Ask Mr. Taksin what happens when you try to change things. His corruption was probably not a trumped up charge but in a country where 70% of the people think it's acceptable, was this the real reason for his downfall? I can't help thinking not. Maybe not as important but relevant is the fact that Thailand have just been thrown out of the Olympic football because they didn't understand the rules of the Asian Football Association ( by fielding an ineligible player) and not thinking to ask for clarification before they did it. The top man is now trying to blame the ASA for not telling them. Unbelievable. Is it loss of face to ask a simple question?

[Voice]

Dear Mr. mutley, I am sure that they are quite impartial. But why did we have to go to court and has anyone else ever used this court over dispute like this. And how did they lost or own! One easy example I can give you. Spain & Britain dispute over Gibraltar. As most Spaniards would tell you that Gibraltar is belong to them. While the Spaniards took Britain to court the court used the term self-determination in this case. This means that if the people of Gibraltar decide that they want to be with Britain then there is not argument for the Spanish. As you probably know that most population of Gibraltar are British so what kind of voting they’re going to get. But why did the court decide to take that decision? But truly Gibraltar is belonging to Spain according to its history it was lease to Britain for one hundred years which has expire long time ago. Could it be that Britain is a permanent member of the UN Security Council! Or could it be the strong tied between UK & US! Why did Britain give back Hong Kong when majority of Hong Kong wanted to stay with Britain? Yes the maybe impartial in Western Judgment but when it comes to benefit who’s who the judgment could be sway. This the world court of politic at work, mutley! By the way I have live in Europe for over 40 years so I do know a thing or two about the way the law work.

If you have read what I have written you would have understand that I didn’t really accuse the court for not working that way they should but rather the way the French has interfere and influence the outcome. Cambodia along would get the same judgment. And if you our history you probably know that the French has stolen more than just Cambodia.

Dutchboy & Multey this isn’t about Thai politics or the Thais who don’t respect the law but it is about Thailand heritage.

[mutley]

Dear Khun Voice, Just a few points here. If this is not about Thai politics then what is it doing in the politics section? Surely it should have been in Arts and Heritage. Gibraltar and Hong Kong are somewhat different cases. Gibraltar in now in the European Union in it's own right so it is really immaterial whether or not it belongs to Spain or UK any more. I have just come back from Hong Kong 5 weeks ago. You would not think it has changed hands and in fact hasn't. You still need a visa to get into China so is it in China or not? It is now called a 'Special Administative Region' and will remain so for another 35 years which was one of the conditions attatched to the British exit. It was hoped that by that time, China will have advanced to being a truly democratic nation. I'm sorry you feel so strongly about the temple but you are part of United Nations and when you join any organisation you must read and understand the rules and conditions AND abide by them. Where did you live in Europe? Bet it wasn't France!

[drake]

"As often the case in other countries, history textbooks don’t always tell the whole story and intentionally omit some key events. Sadly, such omissions have led to misunderstanding and perpetuated conflicts among neighbors.

One could only hope that the vast misinformation readily available and accessible online will help to reveal what have been hidden from the public since the stone age."


The victor writes whatever history he sees fit.
The losers, well, they are dead.

Google "Prah Viharn" and 99% of the hits take you to websites operated by some Cambodian.
As such, I doubt the neutrality and authenticity of the data presented.

[drake]

I have travelled to over 40 countries in the world....
In Western courts,it doesn't matter how much money you have either, the facts are looked at and you are found guilty or not guilty purely on the facts.

I just spat coffee all over my kitchen.
You must have been to 40 countries on some other planet !
In MY western country nobody bothers you if you have enough money and you can break all kind of laws and get away with it if you are in the correct ethnic group.

If there is any doubt whatever, at least in UK, then you are not guilty. The same goes for civil cases such as Thailand and Cambodia are involved in. It will be decided on the facts alone!

"(MERITS)
Judgment of 15 June 1962
...
From these facts, the court concluded that Thailand had accepted the Annex I map. Even if there were any doubt in this connection, ..."
"The Court therefore felt bound to pronounce in favour of the frontier indicated on the Annex I map in the disputed area and it became unnecessary to consider whether the line as mapped did in fact correspond to the true watershed line."

And that's the fact.

[mutley]

Are you classing South American countries as 'western?' As for the UK courts, ask Pr. Anne if she got off the speeding charge. Ask Geoffrey A.,a prominent writer, who spent time in jail for ly ing in court. Ask Jonathan A., a Conserative politician, who did much the same and was sent down. I cannot give their full names as the BP will censor the post if I do. Can't name and shame in Thailand even if they were guilty.

[drake]

Are you classing South American countries as 'western?'

No, I'm referring to places North of the Rio Grande.
Your examples are of people who got caught and sent up. They simply don't have enough clout or brain for what they did.
I'm talking about the ones who the cops won't even look at because of their relative crime to status/money ratio.
Countless times I buzzed the cops at 30+ over limit in my Porsche and they didn't look at me twice but they will pick on me when I'm 5 over in my Honda.
Then we have Lindsey what's her name who keep getting a pass for committing crimes in LA
And the Gay federal Judge who declred null and voided a state law against certain privilege for gays which was voted upon by the people and passed.
Along that line, the US DOJ will no longer prosecute certain cases if the defendant is of certain race(s) and we have
Federal/State policy that will nolonger prosecute thieves who steal medical/educational/welfare services.

Then we have the UK justice system.
Maybe there is something in the water there but I can hardly agree with a system that consistently hauls people who are protecting themselves to jail while allowing the thugs to go free.

And right now, today, UN/NATO is trying to assassinate a head of a soverign state without due process.

So, assure me again how much justice the Thais are going to get out of a Western system ?
I can sure use another good laugh.