Western Democracy Vs Thai Democracy

[drake]

George Bush was never elected he was appointed by the US Supreme Court (which was stacked with right wing judges). Had the court allowed the Florida count to continue he would have lost.

Sorry bud. You might want to check the news update again.
While the SCOTUS declared the winner in that election they DID NOT stop the recount.
Al 'the bloviating AGW peddler' Gore actually LOST in the final tally and that's why he went off to peddle snakeoil instead of filing another nuisance suit.

[observer 101]

The question is: are there Real democracies on this planet?
When I look around, the world is filled with oligarchies; Thailand and USA are both a good example!
I am not Swiss... but I think Switzerland is the only close to democracy country in the world. Swiss people do not even want to belong to European community and the way this "institution" treats their citizens with stupid rules for almost every subject, makes me understand why.
On the other hand, Thailand is not too bad for a foreigner either, provided you have enough money to do the things you really like.

I like Switzerland, have friends there, generally nice people, organized clean country, great chocolate.

It was not too long ago Swiss banks admitted to and were held accountable for stealing big time assets of customers that perished at the hands of Nazi Germany.

Why does Switzerland not want to be part of the EC ??

Could it have anything to do with their enormously wealthy and successful rather secretive banking industry? Do you think they want to adhere to banking laws other than their own?

And of course the good Swiss bankers that reflect the fine "the only close to democracy country in the world" would never hold assets for war criminals, drug lords, blood diamonds ltd., corrupt brutal dictators, etc etc.

[observer 101]

All those expat living here will be much happier if they do not come with a 'better-than-you' attitude and be content with what Thailand has to offer. Of course we are not perfect in so many ways but please let us do things our own way and don't be too judgemental.

I am a retired American living in Thailand and I absolutely agree with you.

Far too many farangs come here and enjoy the benefits of Thai society, but complain incessantly about eveything that they see is wrong with Thailand. I submit that these farang are mentally ill. How can anyone live in a place that they disrespect and constantly degrade and insult? They can and they do because they are insecure people who seem to need "someone to look down" upon. People who need to degrade others in order to make themselves feel important are sick individuals.

Agree, many do complain a lot and try to impose their system on others.
Some of them may be mentally ill, others are simply "complainers" I would not call all of them mentally ill.
Thailand is also a "foreigner misfit magnet" Many many foreign men come to Thailand because they lack the social grace/skills to find a suitable woman in their home countries and prefer to find a younger, slimmer female in need of financial support, not infrequently at the low end of society and they can feel like the master.




I have lived in Thailand for 5 years and I'm married to a Thai woman. I have never experenced any of the bad things that farang's constantly complain about. My experence is that farang's who have problems, have them because they they think that they can "get over" on the Thai's but end up being burned because the Thai's are more clever than they are. In every case that I know of personally where a farang degrades Thailand and Thai people it is after they blindly enter into relationships with dishonorable Thai people (dishonorable people exist in every country) and they lose through their own incompetence.

Voranai Vanijaka states "Cheating and corruption is the norm at all levels of society, and incompetency is the sum of our failings" http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... r-learning Voranai is IMO a very intelligent, and wise university professor with integrity.



My personal experence is that Thai people are more honest and polite than most western countries. I like the way Thai's value their community which sustains them. In the west people have to take drugs to deal with their depression to get through each day. Then they need to take sleeping pills to get to sleep. They need drugs and alcohol to just get through the day and they are eating themselves to death. I hope that the Thai people never change to be like the west and lose the charm and community that they enjoy.

Recent data from a study conducted from 2008 until now shows 4.3 million Thais are alcoholic, that's about 6.7% of the population. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Mo ... 59029.html

Alcohol is so much of a problem in Thailand that http://www.stopdrink.com is created by and for Thai's in Thai language.
Yaba or methamphetamine is also a huge problem in Thailand.

Yes there are honest people in Thailand but indeed also a generalized culture of "corruption and cheating" as Voranai states.

After reading some of your ideas, beliefs and comments I wonder if perhaps you have been living on a Thai offshore gas platform ?





The US democrocy is not what it appears. The gap between rich and poor is growing rapidly because the powers that be have learned how to use psycological manipulation to control the voting process and when that doesn't work they apply corruption. George Bush was never elected he was appointed by the US Supreme Court (which was stacked with right wing judges). Had the court allowed the Florida count to continue he would have lost. He was reelected through the use of fear. How many times was the terrorist threat raised in the time leading up to the reelection? How many times did you see it after?

America is not a good example for Thailand to aspire to and you will be seeing that in the near future. America has lost it's competitive edge because it has given itself over to greed. American's are just to fat and lazy to wake up to that fact.

My advice to the Thai people is do not give in to the greed of the west. Take care of eachother and bring everyone along with your progress. Do it your own way and make your society uniquely Thai. I for one trust the Thai people to do just that. The process looks a little messy at times but it can be done and is being done by many countries who demonstrate that you can have success and growth while sharing the benefits of that progress.

[surinfarm]

A pure and simple inquiry might be: Why the need for a comparative?
What does one have to do with the other....??

[trisailer]

A pure and simple inquiry might be: Why the need for a comparative?
What does one have to do with the other....??

Because it is the exact same process happening here as happened in the west when those democracy's were being established and refined. The players are all the same human's and this process has been played out hundreds of times throughout history. Who was it that said that those who chose to ignore history are destined to repeat it?

The best thing that Thai's have going for them is that they have not been "educated" to vote against their self interest. Weather you agree with the direction that the majority of Thai's want to take the country or not, it is their democratic choice to do so.

What has western democracy produced? The US received the gift of unlimited resources from the indian's but we have squandered those resources on behalf of making millionaires into billionaires. The American people have become so fat and stupid that they easily gave over their future and the future of the country to greed. They spend ten times more than the rest of the world on defense, but couldn't prevent 911. Now it's just a matter of time until that unsustainable system collapses onto itself and drags the rest of the world down with it.

The Thai people have a unique opportunity here to create a society that is uniquely Thai, retaining the great things that make Thailand wonderful while correcting those things that are dragging it down. It is a complected, dynamic process, but it can produce a society that is far better than the western examples of winner takes all.

[surinfarm]

A pure and simple inquiry might be: Why the need for a comparative?
What does one have to do with the other....??

Because it is the exact same process happening here as happened in the west when those democracy's were being established and refined. The players are all the same human's and this process has been played out hundreds of times throughout history. Who was it that said that those who chose to ignore history are destined to repeat it?

The best thing that Thai's have going for them is that they have not been "educated" to vote against their self interest. Weather you agree with the direction that the majority of Thai's want to take the country or not, it is their democratic choice to do so.

What has western democracy produced? The US received the gift of unlimited resources from the indian's but we have squandered those resources on behalf of making millionaires into billionaires. The American people have become so fat and stupid that they easily gave over their future and the future of the country to greed. They spend ten times more than the rest of the world on defense, but couldn't prevent 911. Now it's just a matter of time until that unsustainable system collapses onto itself and drags the rest of the world down with it.

The Thai people have a unique opportunity here to create a society that is uniquely Thai, retaining the great things that make Thailand wonderful while correcting those things that are dragging it down. It is a complected, dynamic process, but it can produce a society that is far better than the western examples of winner takes all.

Good intentions, yet you still are missing the boat.
Your commentary and analysis translates from an Occidental vision and perspective - which really has nothing whatsoever to do with Oriental dimensions and character. The unnecessary comparatives continue. Rewriting diaspora and history Eurocentrically.

[drake]

What has western democracy produced?

Lots of revolutions and wars ?

The US received the gift of unlimited resources from the indian's but we have squandered those resources on behalf of making millionaires into billionaires.

Sorry, there is no real correlation there. It could have happened to a socialist country just the same.
The USA TOOK the land from the indigenous people, it was no gift.
Generations of American lived a prosperous and comfortable life comparing to most other countries, it's a little rough right now but the majority still have that good life, recognizing it or not.

The American people have become so fat and stupid

Thanks to the liberal welfare state and the liberal non-educational curriculum.

that they easily gave over their future and the future of the country to greed. They spend ten times more than the rest of the world on defense, but couldn't prevent 911.

They almost tracked down Al-Q through the USS Cole incident but the State Dept. decided to upstage the real investigators and insulted the Yemenis so they shut them down. Clinton couldn't be bothered with such insignificant issue as he was too busy playing with his cigars and chunky interns so he send his next very best, a few million $$ worth of cruise missiles, to the wrong address. And that was no Fox News article, it was all laid out in a WGBH zine on PBS.

Now it's just a matter of time until that unsustainable system collapses onto itself and drags the rest of the world down with it.

2008 ?
You must have missed that. Having been in some ville with 4th graders in charge of things since 2006 and all.

The Thai people have a unique opportunity here to create a society that is uniquely Thai, retaining the great things that make Thailand wonderful while correcting those things that are dragging it down.

Whoops, missed that boat there already, buddy.
You are about a hundred fifty years late.
Around 1850 was when the first major wave of civilized people landed here and the Siamese had to mimic the Western ways in order to blend-in. Soon the upper class started adopting all things Western, abolished slavery, and all the other things that 'civilized' people are suppose to do. The major bleaching of Siam was FM Strange's cultural purge starting in 1938. You know the dude, right ? The guy who changed the name of this country to Thailand, forced everyone to wear Western monkey suit & pith helmet, tried to kill off all the traditional music and culture, responsible for as slew of coups and counter coups, etc., right ? Oh, yeah, that Faux Democracy thing they've got around here was his doing as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaek_Pibulsonggram

It is a complected, dynamic process, but it can produce a society that is far better than the western examples of winner takes all.

In the old days, when Siam used to have a regular grudge match with the Burmese, Laotian, Khmer, etc.
Losers of the round were killed, properties taken, women/children/non-combatants taken as slave, or killed.
Western society should take a lessen from these people and stop pretending.

Boy, I sure do miss old Siam.

[benp]

for what its worth, i am a farang who has been living here for the past four years. i would rather be here than anywhere else in the world! i live in a village and the community around me are like family to me. i live a happy and peaceful life and i do not interfere with politics......... you lose a lot of friends if you do and make a lot of enemies!
thai democracy is a lot better than some parts of the world where they have none at all. i have the freedom to go where i want, talk to whom i want, eat where i want and live where i want. those farangs who criticize and complain have a choice too, they can go back to where they came from, the sooner the better!

[observer 101]

When pointed out glaringly obvious realities missed or oblivious to, trisailor either changes the discussion around in a way to avoid addressing the facts posed to him, or ignores it completely.

"missing the boat" or perhaps missing the same continent is more applicable. Actually, if it is the same trisailor from thaivisa forum, cut him some slack, as he is perhaps deluded in amazement as a retired american being able to acquire a university student wife.

[surinfarm]

Wouldn't we have to decipher what democracy would be, beforehand?
And then question if such an idyllic utopian democracy realistically exist anywhere....??
Free, open, liberty, self-sufficient, virtuous, fair....?? Where is this location?