Buying property in Thailand

[slipperx]

In reply to Ian 31/5/05 - I am not so sure the 'Crackdown' (if that's what it turns out to be) will benefit anyone at all. The various condo developers don't have much trouble, generally, in selling the first 49% of their registered condo developments to foreigners who are keen to have true title rather than going through the nonsense of setting up a Thai company to hold ownership or risk a thai girlfriend running off with their assets. The issue of whether to let foreigners own land in Thailand is a political issue that has no logical substance behind it, but which satisfies the largely uneducated and ill informed public .

I don't much like racism so proposing higher taxes for foreigners simply on the grounds that they are foreign is not appealing to me but I see no reason why higher rates of taxes should not apply to higher value properties on some form of banding basis. Since the 'rich' farangs will buy higher priced properties than the 'poor' Thais this should satisfy everybody if there is a genuine wish to help the poor man - which would seem to me to be a good ideal. Perhaps the funds raised by higher property transfer taxes can then be deployed into providing a better education system - but of course that would mean that the general populous would become more capable of seeing through the baloney and corruption endemic in Thailand and thus curbing those practices to the detriment of those reaping those benefits!
slipperx

[Aussie Dave]

Yes Colin , but where is it ?

[singaporean]

Hi guys, i am thinking of buying a condo in bangkok for investments, do you think it's a good idea, prices here are way below those in my hometown.

[Tony]

What ever you do, don't buy one of the Waterford condominiums. You will be prevented from forming a residents committee, as allowed by law by the Waterford Company. Tactics they use include turning off your water and telephone, taking you to court. When this fails and the committee wins in court they will probably turn of water and electricity to the whole complex, block of public areas, throw rubbish in common areas and anything else they can think of. It will take a long time to win through the courts.
Meanwhile Waterford will completely ignore court rulings.

Why does Waterford fight so hard to keep control of its condominiums? Well the sinking fund has mysteriously gone missing as have all the previous books.

So if you like battles, buy a Waterford Condominium. Or if you like you money to be siphoned into Waterford’s pockets, buy a Waterford condominium.

[singaporean]

Thanks, I actually went to view a unit at the Waterford diamond in sukhumvit. Didnt really like it as it was too old. Any suggestions on good localities? Chidlom?

[Ian]

Slipperx - I like your idea on taxes. It certainly makes more economic sense than anything written hithert0 here - including what I've writtten. But I don't think foreigners paying a higher tax is
"racist" as you call it. My idea was that the rate would diminish over time - according to how long and with how much commitment, foreigners have owned in Thailand. That strikes me as fair - after all Thais generally have shown their commitment over many generations.

[Zemran]

Making foreingers pay more simply because they are foreigners is racist in my book. It is endemic here and just because they smile as they charge you 10 times what the rich Thai pays next to you does not mean that it is not racist. Many of my friends that come to visit do not come again because of the way that people here steal from them and I do not go to lots of places where I know I will get overcharged because of the colour of my skin. I work with several Asians from other asian countries and they do not get overcharged anywhere near as much as I do.

If the Thai government wants foreign investment they should stop treating foreigners as unwanted cash cows and welcome them as equals. Toxic keeps saying he wants more of us but every other policy makes us feel unwelcome.

[colin gray]

about 50k past kholate

[slipperx]

In reply to Zemran Jun 9th:
Yes I agree, charging foreigners more just because they are not Thai is Racist and it is wrong and is not tolerated at a government nor mainstream society level in the West (in general). This Racist attitude is common in Asia which is why many people perceive Asians as dishonest and to be avoided as far as possible where contact requires an exchange of funds other than the most straightforward one off purchase of goods for cash. It is the shame of Thailand (though standing not alone in the world), that this attitude pervades the government, all the government agencies and pseudo agencies - Or Bor Jor, Tax Office, VAT Department, Police etc. etc. and many Thai men (though surprisingly not so much the women - I wonder why, something to do with how differently western men treat them maybe? (in general again of course!)). (Thought that might engender a little reaction from the reader :-) )

I agree non-Thai's are treated as cash cows, not so much unwanted as wanted for raping of the cash funds they have, and then thrown out (does that remind anyone of the perception of treatment of women by Thai men?). But I digress.

The fact that this racism is sanctioned, nay encouraged, at the next to highest levels makes it all the more noxious - it is notable that one does not detect an iota of similar thought from \\ ///// the ////// and just one of countless reasons he is such a worthy individual and (in my opinion) wholeheartedly deserving of the wideranging respect he has.

I have a Thai wife and Thai children and our collective hearts are saddened that people treat each other this way or even want to, it hardly makes one proud of your country especially given the teachings of the beloved Bhudda.

However until foreigners as a majority refuse to be treated as such and withdraw their money from the economy, this disgraceful ideology will prevail, take the money away and be surprised at how the once fat jowelled and disdainful, will accept reasonable change when the seven years of abundance change to the seven years of famine. It will happen here just as surely as it has happened in other parts of the world - the greed of the locals trying to screw every last Satang possible from the tourists, (no actually not just the tourists but anyone foreign regardless of the duration of their stay personal or family circumstances), which I see in Phuket where I live, will make this sooner rather than later I think. It is a shame that the consequences are invisible to these people - perhaps they should take a field trip to Benidorm in Spain and take of view of their possible future! The famine there has lasted a little longer than seven years - memories are not so short.

Having said all that there is plenty wrong with society and government in the West too so I guess you have to weigh the pros and cons and act accordingly. But I see no reason why a decision to live in one part of the world rather than another should preclude one from comment about the society in which you live nor from seeking to make things better in that society - that does not include attempting to change the society to be the same as the one to which one is used to, which as visitors (or I would prefer to say newcomers), would be inapporpriate and unappreciative of hospitality. However there are many universal and fundamental issues of good and bad true to all societies regardless of religion or politics, and where these values are plainly flaunted, action to temper and change is justified - newcomer or not!
slipperx

[slipperx]

In reply to Ian Beale:

Yes Ian, but I still consider taxation on the basis of what nationality your are or what colour your skin happens to be is racist. Progressive taxation helps the poor by making available to them services (such as education) which would otherwise be unavailable by forcible deduction of earned money from those most able to pay for the benefit of society in general. Provided the level of forcible deduction is not excessive and not selective other than by the amount of money you earn then it would seem to me to be a good thing. There are rich Thais just as able to pay as foreigners and quite a few who have enormous wealth who could pay even more - unfortunately those people are the ones who control the country and it is not in their best interests to serve society by passing such laws.

I likewise do not see the argument that Thai's in general have shown much commitment to their society - by what I see they avoid paying VAT (many do not even know what it is) and Thai owned shops offer you two prices depending on whether they provide a tax receipt or not. If you own a foregin business however the VAT office are down your throats at every opportunity even if you run your accounts in perfect order they dream up some way of taking your money. Try getting a VAT refund for tax overpaid - you will never get the money and your business stripped naked to uncover the very slightest anomoly in order to punish you for even having the gaull to ask!! If you mention businesses openly flaunting the tax code you will be met by a grin and 'Mai pen rai' or that is not your concern. Sorry I am off on a personal tangent!

With that widespread attitude I find it hard to subscribe to the view that Thai's are such wonderfully committed people to their society (in general of course!)

I do understand where you are coming from however and agree that if you want to aquire the benefits of the society in which you live then you have to show a commitment to it - but that is not an exclusive requirement just of foreigners. I still favour a banded taxation system that is equally and fairly applied throughout.
slipperx