The PAD's Blockade of Government House and Parliament

[thailand lover]

throughout all this confusion, one fact has consistently surfaced: that the current turmoil is the manifestation of the struggle between the old power elites (who want to maintain the status quo of weak and marginally popular coalition govts so that the ultimate power rests with them) and the new generation of politicians (who want to establish a strong and populist govt that controls the military, police, etc, but let greed get in the way too soon). just who are the old power brokers? anyone ever wondered?

some say the PAD has powerful supporters in the military and Big Business. but really who are these ppl? and can they stop acting like cowards by using the poor peasants to fight on the front line?

[Nio]

I agree with much of what DocN said.

Thailand Lover you are very ignorant of what is happening here.

Why is the former PM and family in excile in UK with billions of Thailands money?

Why accept a government that was elected in massive fraud and vote buying, has had many MP disqualified, political parties disbanded etc.

Why do you think this current government can be fair and impartial when their only political agenda is to rewrite the constitution to allow Thaksin to return?

This country belongs to the people, not just a handful of Thaksins relatives and cronies.

The people have a moral responsibility to uprise and crush this anarchy once and for all.

Read some Thai history, Thailand-Burma etc. You have to overthrow the enemy whether foreign or domestic when your idealism and principles are compromised and there is no legal recourse or resolution.

The people have no option but to overthrow the government. There is no impartiality in this government.

Why does Thaksin still have a Thailand diplomatic passport when he is on the run?

In any other civilized country in the world, Thaksin would be brought to justice.

In in 2008, the Nazi holocaust perpetrators are still be hunted and tried for their crimes against humanity.

Thailand needs to prove once and for all that money is not above the law and principles of this country by overthrowing this anachy and trying all those convicted in the courts.

[thailand lover]

I agree with much of what DocN said.

Thailand Lover you are very ignorant of what is happening here.

Why is the former PM and family in excile in UK with billions of Thailands money?

Why accept a government that was elected in massive fraud and vote buying, has had many MP disqualified, political parties disbanded etc.

Why do you think this current government can be fair and impartial when their only political agenda is to rewrite the constitution to allow Thaksin to return?

This country belongs to the people, not just a handful of Thaksins relatives and cronies.

The people have a moral responsibility to uprise and crush this anarchy once and for all.

Read some Thai history, Thailand-Burma etc. You have to overthrow the enemy whether foreign or domestic when your idealism and principles are compromised and there is no legal recourse or resolution.

The people have no option but to overthrow the government. There is no impartiality in this government.

Why does Thaksin still have a Thailand diplomatic passport when he is on the run?

In any other civilized country in the world, Thaksin would be brought to justice.

In in 2008, the Nazi holocaust perpetrators are still be hunted and tried for their crimes against humanity.

Thailand needs to prove once and for all that money is not above the law and principles of this country by overthrowing this anachy and trying all those convicted in the courts.

agreed. some of the points raised are very valid. indeed, thaksin seems to have a long shadow over the current govt, and the new somchai govt appears ill-chosen. worse, the fact tt somchai himself is thaksin's close relative speaks for itself.

but i think wat many of us here in this forum are trying to point out is that the PAD has gone out of hand, and, if anything, they have shown the world an uglier Thailand than thaksin will be able to in a generation (ok, thats an exaggeration, but u get my drift). if u judge the thaksin camp against the PAD camp on the scale of damage to the country, then PAD comes out the clear winner, cos in the short and medium term, nothing is achieved by their ill-considered actions.

the PAD's agenda may contain some good suggestions, and yes, i think most of us agree that the country needs massive reforms to its political system. BUT, pls do not jeopardise other people's livelihoods. the rest of the 65 million (most of whom by the way are fed up of PAD, if they are ignorant enough to overlook that) have a life to lead, cos they dont get paid for sitting on dirty lawns listening to noise pollution on the stage.

[angelese]

I really do respect all of your opinions towards the PAD.
However, I, as one of the Thai who are PAD members, would like to share my motivation of joining PAD. There are several FACTS that I think you should understand the situation better.

First, the PADs are NOT only old elites, the PADs comes from all careers
There are issues which, I believe, triggers the protestor's action.

1.Taksin's dictatorship democracy. He's a smart man, and I can't argue that he has not done some good deeds to the country, but it is undeniable that he has exploited his ABSOLUTE power which he has got from buying (democratic) votes by revising any laws which, later on, benefits his own business.

2. Given the fact that media has strong impact on the society's attitude, news and information ever since Taksin's era was distorted in order to serve the government's own security. I remembered that the government tried to cover up all the mess regarding corruption; some news reporters who tried to report taksin and his relative's corruption were forced to resign. Even now National Broadcasting Television report the news with bias. Some correct information is hidden and some are distorted.

3. The public utility union joins the protest because their organizations have been exploited by Taksin's and this government. The organizations ARE established using the tax of the Thai people, but then would be sold out so that the government members can take the big stock share and become the owners the properties which was built by Thai people's money. There were so many things going in the wrong way, and the truth was hidden from becoming the news. If your own government are going to do that to you, will you just shut up?

4.The last point which I believe is the most important reason hundreds of thousands join the PAD is Taksin's full attempt to discredit \\ ///// the ////// and his family. The speech of Mr.Jakrapob Penkhae, one of the ministers at that time, made in L.A. and other Taksin henchman's speech raised the distorted issue on our beloved ////// and his family disrespectfully.
Our ////// has wholeheartedly devoted his life to make invaluable deeds to the nation and his people. Without him, our country cannot develop up to this level. Yet, Taksin's plan is to change our political regime into presidency system and abolish the Royalty system.

As P.M.Samak and P.M. sSomchai is Taksin's proxy, they tried to revise the laws to switch Taksin's wrong into right, and suspiciously, Taksin is waiting for his turn to seize his power back.

For some of you who think that we are HIRED to come to protest, please understand that the truth is NO ONE IS PAID to join the demonstrator. We come with our heart to ask for them to give us back democracy (democracy under oue H.M.
Importantly, the PAD comprise of educated mixed-class citizen; from the poor, the middleclass, to the elites. I have been there and it's the truth.
Just think about it. Tf it's the war between the old elites and the new rich, why hundreds of thousands of people join the PAD? I am not one of the elites who will sacrifice myself to those people. But I am more than willing to sacrifice myself to my //////.

From the PAD's point of view, they can't tolerate corrupted politicians and his claim of this fallacy democracy anymore. We want clean politics.
I understand that most of you are foreigners who may not fully understand our social and culture. And I am writing to share different perspective. I do hope that this will help you to understand us better.

By the way, the P.M. claims that he do not wish any violence, then why some of the PAD got their legs cut off. Some are shot. Even the nurses from redcross and military nurses sent by \\\ ///// the queen were shot on purpose. They select to shoot the nurses who were helping people who are injured. Why they are so inhuman? Shame on them!!!
And after the incident occurs, the cops and the government try to cover up every disgusting actions they made and falsify the guilt to the PAD. In my opinion, they are the true democratic power of the Thai citizen, as street villain.
Would you believe the cop who said that the injuries' legs were cut off because they fell off on each other??? Shame on them once more!!!

[triptrip]

1.Taksin's dictatorship democracy. He's a smart man, and I can't argue that he has not done some good deeds to the country, but it is undeniable that he has exploited his ABSOLUTE power which he has got from buying (democratic) votes by revising any laws which, later on, benefits his own business.

The military raised their salary 30% after the coup and also bought some fighter jets at billions of Baht. Who in a position of power will not abuse it? So if you’re in a position of power, you will put other’s interest first before yours and your immediate family? Come on, please don’t lie


2. Given the fact that media has strong impact on the society's attitude, news and information ever since Taksin's era was distorted in order to serve the government's own security. I remembered that the government tried to cover up all the mess regarding corruption; some news reporters who tried to report taksin and his relative's corruption were forced to resign. Even now National Broadcasting Television report the news with bias. Some correct information is hidden and some are distorted.

At this very moment, you can see that the entire Thai news outlets are on the PAD’s side. The media is retaliating after years of suppression by Thaksin. Like you said, they distort facts and information to serve their own purposes as well, just like Thaksin. Same same.

3. The public utility union joins the protest because their organizations have been exploited by Taksin's and this government. The organizations ARE established using the tax of the Thai people, but then would be sold out so that the government members can take the big stock share and become the owners the properties which was built by Thai people's money. There were so many things going in the wrong way, and the truth was hidden from becoming the news. If your own government are going to do that to you, will you just shut up?

[color=#4040FF]Unions of public utilities are just breeding grounds for laziness and avoidance of responsibility.

Case in point, power disruption is normal in Bangkok. People just go on with their lives. If anyone ask EGAT, they will just shrug their shoulders. Mai pen rai. Try having power outage in other countries and see what the consequences are. Because these utilities are not privatized, they are not accountable to anyone and can get away with anything. If these are privatized, they have to account to the shareholders and ultimately the consumers, meaning you and me.

[/color]
4.The last point which I believe is the most important reason hundreds of thousands join the PAD is Taksin's full attempt to discredit \\ ///// the \\\ ////// and his family. The speech of Mr.Jakrapob Penkhae, one of the ministers at that time, made in L.A. and other Taksin henchman's speech raised the distorted issue on our beloved \\\ ////// and his family disrespectfully.
Our \\\ ////// has wholeheartedly devoted his life to make invaluable deeds to the nation and his people. Without him, our country cannot develop up to this level. Yet, Taksin's plan is to change our political regime into presidency system and abolish the Royalty system.

The world’s biggest diamond is actually owned by someone in Thailand. Most people forget about it. The largest landlord in Bangkok is trying to kick away some low paying leasee in a prime area so they can build another mega shopping mall. So much for development.

Overall, the elite Thais are just a bunch of lazy arse. They’ve made their fortune through the back of the poor peasant through land ownership and patronage (ironic how this is now being used to get rid of Thaksin, etc). Of course they are not willing to let go so easily.

Many of these elite thais plays the devil advocate by joining hands with western companies while at the same time, using protectionist mechanism to maintain a stronghold in businesses conducted in Thailand.

The newly rich thais made their fortune through hard work and this obviously rubbed some older generation the wrong way. Case in point, through patronage system, the lion brand beer was able to enjoy a near monopoly of the Thai beer market. Then along came some uneducated immigrant who started life by selling food by the roadside and made a fortune through hard work who then challenged the status quo by entering the beer market.

Within a few years, the lion brand, bogged down by years of near monopoly culture and old way of thinking, was unable to compete. Nor do they feel that they need to compete, as it is their birth given right to be rich and arrogant. Finally, the elephant brand prevail. What an insult to a family who has aristocracy connections. The pride, the ego and not to mention, shrinking income suffered enormous damage.

Drastic actions have to be taken to get rid of these people who actually work to get money. Working has never been in the vocabulary of these elites thais whose entire life depends on old money granted to their family for generations. On second though, these elite thais do actually work, work hard to graze the covers of magazines in glitzy parties held at 5 stars hotels.

[supertireguy]

I visited Thailand for the first time in 2008.

I was impressed with the qualities of the Thai people and beauty of the country.

Since then I sometimes check Thai new web pages for news. I this ongoing PAD demonstration in Bangkok is very interesting.

As I understand it among other things the PAD group wants to modify how rural votes are counted in elections. Something about rural people being slightly less qualified to vote on important issues? How can this be made possible in a democratic society?

I think PAD has made their point and gotten lots of attention. Ok. In the meantime government functions are partially crippled. This does not help the daily lives of Thai people.

I hope PAD is mature enough to say ok, we've made a point, let's pull back and demonstrate now using lawful and productive means. Be heard thru your representatives in government. Don't just shutdown the government.

As far as the PAD street demonstrations and the occupation of government buildings go. I'm impressed with how little death, mayhem and destruction has occurred. Less than 5 people dead? That's not bad when compared to what typically happens in similar situations in other countries where things get really crazy and many people die.

I hope things get better for Thailand and this situation is peacefully resolved soon.

[thong]

They are few matters for Democrats supporters to explain and/or prove before pointing fingers.

1.Prove that it is the Government's policy to use force to disperse protesters if they were peaceful demonstrations.
2. The Democrats should explain to the peace loving citizens and the world video clips from some foreign TV stations that showed the demonstrators were armed with sticks and iron bars.
3. The Democrats have to explain why a peaceful demonstration have to be armed with sticks and iron bars.
4. How do you explain fire arms and narcotics being found in PAD rally sites.
5. How do you explain bomb blast incidents that killed two persons.
6. The Democrats have to explain why there is a need for their continue tolerant with PAD behaviours even with agencies being created to investigate all allegations, accusations brought against Thaksin and TRT government.
7. Should the police use force to disperse protesters blocking or invading the Democrats HQ or the BMA office when they refuse to disperse.
8. Should the police use force to disperse protesters if they kidnapped judges in court houses.
9. Is taking over Government house and blocking MPs from performing their duties at Parliament legal activities.
10. The Democrats need to give their definition on the rule of law.
11. The Democrats need to give their definition on democratic system of Government.

[Rahat]

Well I'm glad to see this post i started has turned out to be (mostly) a lively discussion, though it does go astray from time to time! anyways I thought, as a lawyer myself, I should point a few things out to everyone regarding this matter:

None of this would have happened if everyone respected the RULE OF LAW. You see, the constitution guarantees every Thai the right to a peaceful assembly. But the article in the constitution goes on to state that there ARE limitations to this right, such as the protesters being unarmed, and most importantly that the RIGHTS of others must be respected in that no the protestors are not breaking any other law and other people's rights must be respected. This brings me to what the PAD have been doing. Ever since they restarted their protest at makawan bridge, I have lost track of the number of laws they have broken. They refused to follow the COURT'S orders to clear the roads from certain times so that the school children will not be troubled. They only followed for a day or two then said they have to close the roads for 'safety'. They never obtained a permit for their protests either (but this point is flexible and rarely do organizers of whatever protest ask for one anyways).

Then came the August 26th (i think?) when they RAIDED NBT station (tv replays showed them using various weapons) to attempt to relay ASTV signal, fortunately they failed. They also raided various ministries, again carrying weapons ( look up the videos online yourself to see what the PAD 'guards' are carrying with them). And then came the raid on government house, the most despicable act of all. They broke more laws than I can count by entering government property without permission (they basically hijacked it). When again the courts issued an injunction for them to vacate the premises, they refused. When the criminal court issued arrest warrants, they core leaders refused to turn themselves in and even used human shields to make sure the police are hesitant to come and arrest them (cowards?). The arrest of Chamlong was obviously intended by the PAD since they were losing so much attention and they needed more public sympathy towards their cause. They were angered to see on TV the picture of somchai and abhisit sitting at the same table to discuss political reforms; to them this was a solution within the system, for which they are not a part of and hence cannot allow. For the PAD its either "my way or no way" and this attitude has been driving the country into the ground. Oh, forgot to mention the closing of airports, railway, and port. Those were extremely selfish acts by the PAD which only damaged the country, not the government. Those union workers should be FIRED for behaving in such a manner, and the PAD should PAY for all the damage they caused during those acts. Imagine how much shame we felt when other countries had to sent EMPTY PLANES to pick up their citizens from phuket?

And of course we have the latest ugly tactics which was the seizure of parliament. They surrounded parliament with barbed wires and covered tires in oil ready for being burnt. They locked the gates of parliament. They knew that if they prevented the government from delivering its policy, the government could not function. Again this was a "hijacking". Dont forget that they ALREADY HIJACKED GOV. HOUSE and now they want parliament, a place where 622 people mainly chosen by the people are to meet and discuss the nation's problems. It is the LAST PLACE where the public and its representatives can still talk like CIVILIZED (most of the time!) people to seek a way out of all our problems. Obviously the PAD, again with the "my way or no way" attitude cannot allow things to be solved there or else all their efforts would have been in vain.

This led the police to use teargas to disperse the protestors. As much as I am sad to see my fellow countrymen injured and even dead, I still believe that the police did the right thing. We are already the laughing stock of the world when they were allowed to take over gov. house; teargas should have been used during that time but khun samak was a coward . How can the PAD hijack ANY place they want? This country belongs to 63 million people, not just the PAD. If they took parliament, what will happen to this country? So if the democrat party was government, and protestors to hijack whatever, will they resign (I am going to start a new topic on this lousy democrat party under the thai politics section so stay tuned there!) ?
Again, returning to the RULE OF LAW argument I brought forward, it was the LAW which got rid of samak, not the PAD. It was the LAW which made thaksin run away (he even claimed the law/court was not fair) not the PAD. It is the LAW which will deal with corrupt politicians (red card ---> party dissolved) not the PAD. But apparently the PAD think they are ABOVE the law since these coward PAD leaders continue to refuse to turn themselves in and face justice. The argument that the gov will change the constitution and they will not be guilty is NOT TRUE. The court will look at the law when the offence was COMMITTED (unless they follow the ridiculous TRT judgement/precedent, which is for another discussion). So whatever the new law is, generally speaking, it wont matter. Changing the constitution will not make thaksin or PPP or whoever innocent.

Just now the news reported that the PAD supporters, probably more of those terrorist sriwichai warriors, hijacked a BUS. I am sorry but if you still condone this type of behaviour, you seriously need to think very hard. I agree with the EXISTANCE of the PAD as a watchdog, to help inform the public about the things the government is hiding, but when they behave like gangsters and terrorists (some post said they are educated, middle/upper class people) but it doesnt matter because the RULE OF LAW applies to EVERYONE. If you break the law, you face the music. The last guy who thought he was above the law had to run away to england. Maybe the PAD should run away to somewhere else as well?

Oh and regarding them charging the government for using in violence in various courts, I find that HYPOCRITICAL since they never respected the law but now want to use it. However, the injured protestors must be allowed to claim for damages from the police. Again the PAD should use their common sense: teargas is used lawfully used to disperse illegal assemblies (like the PAD) everywhere else in the world. The international community is on the government's side once they see what the PAD has done.

Anyways sorry for the long post but I think its better I speak my mind in hear rather than go and occupy some government property and damage my nation. Take care everyone, thanks for reading, and please, use your logic and common sense, not your emotions!

Rahat

[angelese]

Dear Khun Rahat,
If you said so, it means you don't believe in moral. But I do believe that leaders MUST have moral, otherwise power in their hands would turn to be devil, just like the situation at this moment.
Also, please EDUCATE me WHICH channels are at the PAD's side?
As you said, PAD is only a group of people with no legal power in hands, comparing to the government that CAN ORDER everything. Come on. If you are a Thai, you must have realized how distorted the news, especially in NBT channel is.
I think so far, only Thai PBS and Nation channel are the neutral ones, I have nothing to say for the rest.
I am not saying that they WANT to distort it. I am saying that the government use the media as a tool to purify themselves. It is SO obvious that Taksin's gone, yet his puppets are playing god in this country at this very moment.

I do respect the cops's duty.
But must they use bombs and fire guns? THEY REALLY USE them. I was very close to where the bomb was thrown as I was one of the medic team. The sound was significantly different of the canister. It is unacceptable that the cop blame all these to the PAD because the cops really THREW the bombs at those.
Must they shoot the medic team sent by the queen? Those nurses were helping injured people and six of them were intentionally shot (they aimed the gun only at the medic team at that time).
Must they shoot the canister to the ambulance which are in a hurry to send injured people to the hospital?
Above all I know that you and me just stand at the opposite point of view. I wish the royal system will be preserved. I guess you don't. I believe that the PAD are peaceful enough (yet I agree with you at some point at NBT) so that it has not turn in to mayhem though we have been in so many confrontations.

[illini]

Rahat makes excellent points. I do not understand how PAD can be allowed to bring such devastation to the reputation of thailand and the rule of law, all in the name of fighting coruption. If PAD is unhappy with the elected officials, elect better ones. Now we have a Prime Minister forced to step down for making soup. Thaksin's sins did not do nearly as much damage to \\ //// as the current anarchy. \\ //// and the courts helped cause this anarchy and allowed it to go on for two long.