Motorcycles: 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke, Long Distance.

[Sean Moran]

This comparison pertains to single-cylinder, 100-125cc motorcycle engines on light road bikes, common in Thailand.

The two different motorcycles compared were ridden for roughly similar combinations of city/village commuting and country/rural long-distance hauls. As a rough estimate: around 7,000-8,000km and one serious crash over 3-4 months, each, between June and September of 2005 and 2006 respectively.

Mosai#1, the Suzuki was an early 90s 125cc 2-stroke with five gears and a manual clutch. Purchased in June 2005 from a small tin-shack shop across the road from the Maptaphut police station for 6,500 THB, although I had a respectable friend did the talking with the vendor over the deal, which probably saved me a few thousand baht on the possible purchase price.



Suzuki on show and shine day, August 2005.



Loaded for Chanthaburi. September 2005.

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Mosai#2, the Honda was a late model 2yo 100cc 4-stroke 4-speed manual clutch, purchased from the Yamaha shop on Tiwanon Road a few kays south of Chaengwattana for 18,000 thb in May 2006 without the help of a spokesperson, and the same shop bought that bike back off me for 12,000 baht cash in late September 2006.



Honda just prior to resale, September 2006.

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Although the Honda cost thrice as much, and definitely looked more respectable for fronting up at the school carpark in a shirt and tie than the lewd Suzuki, there still remained one indubitable handicap over long distance rides that the Suzuki never had. Ungood vibrations.

Another word for single cylinder four stroke motorcycles is thumpers although this tends to refer to larger 250+ enduro bikes. Enduro might be the right word, because riding the Honda at 90-100km/h for more than around two hours, the vibrations caused by the engine compression would start to numb the feeling in the wrists and hands, so that the buzzing sensation might be felt for days after the ride.

The Suzuki did local commuting mainly around Rayong and one long trip from Rayong to Chanthaburi to Cambodia to Khorat to Nonthaburi to Bangkok to Rayong. Good allday cruising speed was around 110-120km/h, which kept up with most traffic. The greatest problem was trying to source an OEM kick-start lever because I went through three different ones that were prone to slip on the gearbox spline before finally finding the right replacement part. There was never any noticable hand numbness from the vibrations even over 4-5 hour rides.

The 4-spd Honda, on the other hand, was ideal for tonking around Nonthaburi, and the few country miles on the way to Chachoengsao were so brief that the vibration injuries were insignificant.

However the Honda did do the Chanthaburi/Laem/Prum border run three times, and always back through Rayong to return to Nonthaburi on the Sunday afternoon, and one trip through Bangkok to Ratchaburi, then down to Chumphon and finally Nakhon Si Thammarat for a week before putting her (her name was Lek <I always name my motorbikes>) on the train at Hat Yai to give the nerves in the fingers time to recover. Eina! (not a wise idea in hindsight).

Possibly just an inherent property of single-cylinder 4-stroke engines at high RPMs, but the effect of those vibrations seemed to make it almost difficult to grasp the chalk to write on a blackboard on Monday mornings.

If I need to ride a bike in Thailand again, the 4-stroke wins for simplicity and they're much more predictable for new riders because 4-strokes don't have the power-band like 2-strokes generally do, so around the city the four-stroke is the way to go.
No autolube either.

If I have to tour though, or ride long distances of over 250-300 km, then the old Suzy 2-stroke handled the high-speed miles so much more effortlessly then the thumper, even though the extra gear and 25cc capacity might have an advantage. With the four-speed box, the Honda was happy at 95km/h and struggling to hold onto 100 without advance planning, and that's not quite fast enough to keep up with rural highway traffic. That IS one factor that I would have liked to test out but haven't yet, but perhaps others who have ridden five-speed small 4-stroke singles long-distance can confirm or explain this one unexpected problem in late-model 4-stroke bikes.



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This was a reply to the original spam article that began this thread. Seeing the original OP has deleted his post and left mine there, I might as well just edit this thread title and save starting a new thread about motorbikes, which were already mentioned anyway.

Re: Car Rental Coupons in Thailand for Sale

At those prices, if you catch a bus for 3 days to a week, you can buy yourself
a good second-hand motosai outright, and sell it back to the shop when you
are finished with it for a good percentage of what you paid for it.

Is this a paid advertisement btw?

[pachangamac042]

just a new scam I guess. what is this \\\ ///// doing in a forum? and why does he not get censorship?

[pachangamac042]

see, I can not even call him an i*d*i*o*t, but he still can do his business, amazing \\\\ +++////, ^^^***^```!

[crashtester]

Helmets like that offer very little protection for the jaw in head-on collisions.

You should wear a proper full-face helmet, such as Tesco Lotus stocks for under 1,000 baht.

Still, if you've got a sip-satang head buy a sip-satang helmet so they say, and it's really cumbersome trying to light a durrie through the ventilation ducts of a full-face. They're a bit of a fire-hazard in that respect, I suppose.

[stilljustbrowsing]

All motorcycles referred to in the previous posts are city bikes! They were never meant for long distance.
To go long distances you need a four stroke of at least 400cc. You have a choice of "racing style", uncomfortable below 60 KPH because the wind resistance is not enough to enable you to relax your arms below such a speed, or you can go for the Harley D style which I would recomend. Full face helmets are the safest, but they are like wearing an oven! So, get a touring type bike with a screen. then you can wear an "open face" helmet without fear of catching an insect in your teeth (some flying insects are quite large here so you really would not want to meet one going in the opposite direction at a combined speed of 120KPH!)

[Sean Moran]

All motorcycles referred to in the previous posts are city bikes! They were never meant for long distance.

To go long distances you need a four stroke of at least 400cc. You have a choice of "racing style", uncomfortable below 60 KPH because the wind resistance is not enough to enable you to relax your arms below such a speed, or you can go for the Harley D style which I would recomend. Full face helmets are the safest, but they are like wearing an oven! So, get a touring type bike with a screen. then you can wear an "open face" helmet without fear of catching an insect in your teeth (some flying insects are quite large here so you really would not want to meet one going in the opposite direction at a combined speed of 120KPH!)

Thanks for your response, SJB. I was starting to think that this forum must be comprised of 100% farang and no motorcyclists for lack of interest.

There's not much difference between road riding in the city or country except for the length of time between traffic lights and obstructions like corners, although there are a lot more bugs in the country.

Are you referring to a single-cyl 4 stroke or a twin? Thai bikes are generally 150cc or less, which equates to thumpers and sheds a good light on small-engined two-strokes with model-airplane engines, but I'm curious as to how you found the vibrations over long distances on the 400cc 4-stroke if it was a single.

Still, for Thailand; city or country, you have a choice of 100cc or 125cc - 2-stroke or 4-stroke. It's far more interesting than lumbering around in the sticks on an Hardly Drivable.

[stilljustbrowsing]

I know some friends who make a very nice single cylinder 4 stroke (400cc) based on a Kawasaki engine, real nice cruiser!
Even has a valve decrompressor lever for starting (just like the old Vellos and AJS's) The bike I played with was a Honda, 400cc, four cylinder, four stroke! Sweet vibes!
Never liked the Hardly drivebles, too blo#dy heavy and only good for straight lines! Had a Suzi GS1000 before, once I got the right shocks on it ,it was great! (put a 4 into 1 power exhaust on it to, just to annoy the porsche drivers!)
"The long run" was an album done by the "Eagles", does that stress you!
Where I come from, single cylinder thumpers started at 350cc, anything below that was for learners and wussies!

[Sean Moran]

400cc 4-pipe 4-stroke = Ideal for touring Thailand IMHO!

Still, some would say that even a 750 is too light on for crossing the Nullabor from Norseman to Ceduna, but those rare large capacity imported bikes are astronomically priced in Thailand - luckily it's never more than 20-30km between roadhouses - Thailand is geographically convenient.

With the single cyl 4-stroke 400, have you heard any rumours about excessive chassis vibrations over 3-4 hour rides, because that is about the one noticable difference I have found over long-distance, possibly due to the Otto princible of combustion, whereas the 2-stroke reed valve uses far less moving parts through a complete cycle.

That's where I reckon a twin-cylinder four-stroke might alleviate the harmonics that can be felt through the handlebars. I'd love the chance to really test this out over the same distances on a few different types of bikes to see if it holds true, but the advantage of Thailand might be that serious limitation of engine capacity that limits most workable configurations to single pot engines, unless we want to get all intricate with the con rods like some bonzai arrangement.

Thanks for renewing this discussion. I'm hoping to know the answers before next May, when I might have to make another decision on transportation.


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On the Eagles, I do admit that I messed with the ending of the Monty Python Viking sketch punchline, (partley because of the innuendo that modern delinquents might associate with "gets you in the end", but also because I'd just done Hotel California on Sunday and needed a segue in a rather unexpected moment. :lol

<Sorry. Will get the Floyd happening next week... >

[stilljustbrowsing]

If youv'e got a bird on the pillion, get a "thumper", they love the vibes!

[stilljustbrowsing]

I love Pink Floyd, by the way, which one of you is"Pink"?
I thought "Otto" was more renouned for his diesels?
Had a Yamaha RD250 in 1974, first production reed valve induction two stroke as I recall and replaced the YDS7
The only Monty Python schetch involving vikings had something to do with a Norwegian blue that had been pining for the fiords, so far as my tiny mind recollects! (Careful you don't step on that vicar on the landing)