Farang Becoming a Thai National

[indolesman]

My Background Information

I am a 26 year old single male, born in the UK to English parents. I fell in love with Thailand 4 years ago.

I have been studying to read and write Thai for a few years, lets say for argument that I am able to read and write Thai, as well as speak it to a fluent level.

I live and work in Sattahip full time and my job isn't temporary

I don't have a criminal record.

I have a Thai driving licence, a Thai debit card account, a work permit and a 12 month house contract.

My earnings are at the moment 70,000 baht a month and this will be doubled by 18 months.

What I have been told

I have been told every year the Thai government hands out passports and makes a handful of foreigners full time residents, therefore able to buy land like a Thai and not need work permits. One of the requirements is to read and write Thai.

What I am asking.

I don't take no for an answer and I will work hard to get whatever I want. No task is too large and I am a believer that one can achieve anything they want, with the right amounts of effort. I would like to know what is the process of becoming a Thai national?

and if there is no process, where do I start? If i have to write to the monarch or government on a daily basis, then that is what I will do. I just need some direction, even if you can point me towards a Thai address or Thai website... government office etc. I will follow it up.

Why do I want to do it?

A badge of honour!


Thanks

Bryan

[indolesman]

I will try and make this a thread a portfolio, so someone else can follow my footsteps. No replies no problems.

This link has kept me busy. I will fire off some letters and emails.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php

I am also going through this list, noting which departments to target in my letter writing campaign.

http://www.eppo.go.th/index_thaigov.html

In business in my experience you get a 1- 5% success rate, (in terms of emails/letters being answered) therefore everyone I contact will have to be noted and contacted several times. I expect this. I know most would give up.

[indolesman]

I have contacted a good friend of mine, he has been promoted and renamed by the ////// several times

Dr. PK Panyasudhammawithet

I am seeking his advice, he has a PHD so he is exactly the type of guy who takes matters into his own hands

[indolesman]

I have contacted 3 visa helping services, asking them for advice and/or point me in the right direction

[indolesman]

I have been told by another farang

"i read

you need at least 4 or 6 years of continual residence and visas with no breaks
and tax records for the period
need to speak thai and sing the national anthem etc."

I have the tax records and I can speak Thai reasonably, I can learn the national anthem no problem. I don't expect it to be this easy, but at least i am getting somewhere.

But I dont have the 4-6 years of continual residence

[Martinus]

Before you can become a thai national you need to become a resident
Residency is acquired by having an uninterrupted yearly visa for 3 years
If you work you need more than 100.000 thb salary, if you are married you will need
to have children or proof of why you are shooting blanks at your age.
Plus you have to show no criminal record etc.

Seems you have just one problem to overcome; your salary

Furthermore the Thai language part which you seem to have under control
After a few years, I believe 5, of residency there is the possibility to become Thai national
This doesnot require more than all the requirement from the residency plus fluent Thai

[indolesman]

Before you can become a thai national you need to become a resident
Residency is acquired by having an uninterrupted yearly visa for 3 years
If you work you need more than 100.000 thb salary, if you are married you will need
to have children or proof of why you are shooting blanks at your age.
Plus you have to show no criminal record etc.

Seems you have just one problem to overcome; your salary

Furthermore the Thai language part which you seem to have under control
After a few years, I believe 5, of residency there is the possibility to become Thai national
This doesnot require more than all the requirement from the residency plus fluent Thai

Thanks for the information. Here is the rest of my findings, it seems I know everything i need to know now!

Read this

“To qualify to apply for Thai citizenship, the applicant must meet the following criteria:
• He or she must be 18 years old or older and also have reached legal majority in his or her country of origin.
• He or she must be of good behavior and background. The following will be checked: criminal record; political background; involvement with illegal drugs and, in the case of Vietnamese applicants, personal behavior.
• If working in Thailand, he or she must have an income of at least 80,000 baht a month or have paid taxes in the year the citizenship application is made of 100,000 baht or more.
• If living in Thailand for “reasons of humanity” such as being marriage with a Thai people or having a Thai-born child or having graduated from a university in Thailand, he or she must have an income of at least 30,000 baht a month and be able to prove that he or she has paid taxes in Thailand for at least three years.
• He or she must have lived in Thailand contunously for at least five years before applying.
• The applicant must know the Thai language, including speaking, listening and understand, be able to sing the National Anthem and Sanserm Phra Baramee and pass an interview in Thai with government officers.

Points are awarded to applicants on the following basis: Age and education, 25 points; Occupation, 35 points; Length of residence in Thailand, 10 points; Relationship with Thai people and Thailand, 10 points; Thai language knowledge, 10 points; Personality, 10 points.

Applicants must score a total of at least 50 points in order to qualify for consideration. They must also have two guarantors of their behavior and assets. These guarantors must not be relatives.

Documents applicants must supply are;
• Five copies of passport
• Five copies of documents verifiying address in Thailand
• Five copies of work permit
• Five copies of house registration
• Five copies of marriage registration (translated into Thai)
• Two copies each of ID cards and house registrations of two people who guarantee the applicant’s behavior and assets.
• Copy of birth certification, ID card or passport of a wife or husband and children, if any. If the applicant has changed names or surnames, documents relating to these must also be provided.
• Documents showing income tax paid over the past three years.
• In the case of applicant being a director or partner in a limitewd liability company or partnership, documents verifying that company taxes have been paid for three years.
• Two copies each of company or partnership registration, licenses, lists of shareholders, value-added taxes and other related documents of the organization the applicant works at.
• Two documents verifying occupation from the organization where he or she works. Salary and position of the applicant must be stated, and the documents must be signed by an authorized person in that organization.
• Two documents verifying the applicant’s educational background and those of his or her children, if any.
• A document verifying bank accounts, and showing they contain a minimum of 80,000 baht.
• A document verifying donations to charity. These should total not less than 5,000 baht and the money must have been donated a long time ago – not just a time to support the citizenship application.
• A dozen photographs, 2.5x2.5 inches in size, showing the applicant dressed politely.
• A document verifying that the applicant has reaches majority according to the laws in his or her country of origin.

Applicants must present all original documents in person, along with an application fee of 5,000 baht fee. Bangkok-resident applicants should go to the Nationalization Office, Special Branch, Royal Thai Police, the 5th building, Phraram 1 Rd, Kwang Bangmai, Pathumwan Bangkok.

Residents outside Bangkok should apply to the Provincial Police.

Documents will be sent to the relevant authorities for checking. The officers will present those documents to higher ranking officers.

The Interior Minister is the final authority for the decision. There is no exact timetable for consideration – it depends on the length of the checking process.

Last year 48 people applied for Thai nationality. Ten received approval from the Minister of Interior.”
Thursday, October 28, 2004 Pol Lt Col Somdej Khanthawong, Special Branch, Royal Thai Police, Bangkok


Someone that did it;

Hi All,

For those who are interested, the application process for Thai
Citizenship in my case went as follows:

Late 2003 - Picked up the checklist from the Police Headquarters on
Rama 1 Road

January 2004 - Took all my documents to the Police Department, in what
I thought was a word perfect application. However, since I was
applying in January and this being a new tax year, my tax returns from
the three preceding years were not enough. An oversight on my part, so
waited until I got my most recent tax return PNG 91 for 2003

March 2004 - Try again. This time my application was successfully
lodged. Paid the 5,000 Baht fee. Got fingerprinted. Signed my name (in
Thai) on dozens of firms. Took two Thai witnesses and later my wife
plus kids to show that they were real. Took forms issued to me by the
police department to immigration and my district office. Later went
back to pick up the completed forms and take them back to the police
department

April 2004 - Thai language interview at the Police Department

September 2004 - Invited to the Interior Ministry. Showed them my work
permit, passport, alien registration certificate and certificate of
residence. Then, I was shown into a room with around 40 people
watching me. I was given a microphone and asked to sing the Thai
National anthem and Phra Baramee (the one they play in the cinema).
Yes, really. Managed to keep a straight face. Got interviewed in Thai
- basic Q&A about my circumstances. Around the same time, a group of
three officials from the Interior Ministry visited my house to see if
my domestic circumstances were as described on my application form

Waited

Waited

February 2006 - Got the good news that the then Interior Minister Khun
Kongsak had approved my application

March 2006 - Got a letter to notify me of the above

Waited

(September 2006 - military coup)

Waited

November 2006 - Got the good news that the ////// had countersigned my
application

December 2006 - One of the most memorable parts: the oath. Just
after the ////// endorsed my application, I was asked to report to the
police department in business attire, armed with a candle, a lotus
flower and an incense stick. I then had to stand with these in my
hands while clasped in a wai, in front of a Buddhist shrine, repeating
an oath of allegiance to ////// and country, and promising to be an
upright and law-abiding citizen.

Waited

Waited

April 2007 - Got the good news that the new Interior Minister Khun
Aree had announced in the Interior Ministry notices that a bunch of
applicants including me could now get Thai nationality

May 2007 - Got the paperwork and certificate from the Police HQ to
take to the district office to get my ID card. Now I must return my
work permit, alien residence certificate and certificate of residence
to respective authorities as these are no longer needed. Now I can
apply for a passport

Told that my application was one of the faster ones these days.
Getting Thai Citizenship IS a pain in the arse - but look on the
bright side:

1) Now I can own what I buy, land, house, etc

2) No need for a work permit, and no restricted occupations. I can now
drive a Tuk Tuk for a living if the going gets tough in the IT
industry

3) Now I can get in free to the Grand Palace and pay the Thai rate for
national parks

4) I can own a business

5) I can get a Thai passport and visit countries like Laos and Vietnam
visa free

6) No need for that expensive old yearly Resident Return visa. No
limit to the amount of time that I spend out of Thailand without
losing my residency

7) I can use the Thai passport lane at the airport (shorter queues)

8) In my case, no need to give up my old nationality

9) I have a new Thai identity, forename and surname. Good for
travelling to places that dislike my country of origin

10) I think that I can even vote, although I am not sure who is worth
voting for

All you need to do is satisfy the following to apply:



Golden rules are:

1) Be patient and never get upset. The people that handle your
application do not make the rules and do not have any power over what
happens in the Interior Ministry

2) Get a coach. Not an expensive lawyer - just make friends with one
of the officials that handles your application

Cheers



Thai residency; read this;


Disclaimer

These are my personal experiences as a single guy living in rented accommodation in Bangkok and working for a Thai company. The details of the process differ from year to year, from province to province, and according to the applicant's situation and reason for applying. This is a guide, not the bible.

Do you need a lawyer?

It doesn't make any difference to Immigration if you use a lawyer or not. It doesn't make you look better or worse. But it does affect the process a little.

A legal firm with experience in PR applications should be able to give you useful advice on how to provide a "portfolio" showing your contribution to society, ensure all your Thai-language company documents are correct and complete, handle translation of documents, and save you some running around. Your own company lawyer - if you have one - can probably help with everything except the portfolio.

If you hire a legal firm, it will probably consider the approval of your application to be the end of the process. If you want them to help you with the various steps after approval, you'd better put that in the written agreement so it's understood by all. If you hand over a lot of documents to them, make a list and get them to sign for them in case any go missing.

Myths

You don't need to be married to obtain PR. There are minimum salary guidelines for each nationality, but these aren't written down and they aren't set in stone. In some circumstances you can apply if you fall short of the minimum salary.

Preparation and documents

First, go to Immigration (Room 301 at the Suan Phlu Office in Bangkok), tell them which category you are applying in (Investment, Work/Business, Humanitarian, Expert) and request the appropriate documents. They'll give you a sheet "Detailed Information Needed for Residence Permit Applications," TM.9 Application for Permanent Residence, a Personal Information sheet, a sheet titled "Documents required when applying for a residence permit in the category of [whatever you requested]," a sample medical certificate and a sample form for submitting Thai-language maps of your home and workplace.

Many of the 20 documents listed are related to your employer, work and tax record for the previous 3 years and must have been signed (or issued) within 3 months of making your application. Some documents must be translated into Thai and certified by your embassy. Educational certificates must be translated into Thai and certified by the Foreign Ministry.

Others documents on the list include:

(2) a medical certificate as per their official sample (the one that declares you free from syphilis and elephantiasis) issued by a hospital in the 3 months prior to the application date.

(3) certificate of no criminal record from your "domicile" and certified by your embassy. This means the country whose passport you are currently using, and you need to apply direct to your country's police for this. If your country has criminal record checks with and without fingerprints, you'll probably need the one with fingerprint check. Immigration can do the fingerprints for you free of charge (Room 301). If your country has federal and state record checks, you'll need the federal one. Expect this to take 3-8 weeks in Western countries but it could take up to 3 months.

(17) maps in Thai language of your place of residence and work (if applicable).

(19) "Personal Information sheet and the applicant's portfolio, which includes detailed information about family background, knowledge and ability, working experience, special ability, social work, work place, residence together with photo (using the A4 document folder)."

The photos required are of the exterior and interior of your home and workplace. It might be a good idea to have yourself in the photos too.

The portfolio depends on what you have available. The purpose of the portfolio is to establish that you are an upstanding citizen who is unlikely to get into financial or other trouble in the future. Anything that portrays you as a somebody, as someone who is a cut above the rest or as financially secure is worth submitting. Some suggestions:

* Complete resume going back to school.

* Letter to Immigration from yourself detailing your contribution to Thai society.

* Documents supporting your contribution to society.

* Reference letters from senior Thais supporting your good character and application. Obviously, the more senior or well-known, the better. Give your referees a template letter in Thai to make it easier for them.

* Membership of charitable organizations.

* Membership of non-profit organizations, such as chambers of commerce.

* Newspaper clippings mentioning you or written by you. Any publications written by you.

* Certificates or diplomas.

* Copies of bank books, certificates of transferring money into Thailand, share certificates, pension records, provident fund records, condo ownership and other assets.

Applying

Immigration is open for applications from about mid-December until the last working day of the year. Only two weeks. You take your file in and an officer will check the documents. Quite likely there will be something that needs correcting or updating, but from now on you deal with this officer so it's easier to get questions answered. You'll also get your fingerprints taken at this point.

The officer will give you an appointment sheet with details of the date and time for your interview and Thai-language test in March or April and tell you to bring along your annual Income Tax return (Por Ngor Dor 90/91) and company tax documents for December. This officer isn't a total expert on documentation, so don't be surprised if you get requests for corrected/updated documents right up until June the following year.

The Interview

In my case, the officer who interviewed me was the same one who accepted my application and documents 4 months before, so things were pretty relaxed and friendly. I had a young lawyer with me. Since I speak Thai pretty well, the whole discussion was in Thai. Mostly it was about the documents, my background, and the PR process. Every now and again a question came right out of the blue, like "What religion are you?" So I got the impression my Thai language skills and general demeanour were being examined. The officer typed on a PC the whole time.

After the discussion, she printed out a long statement (in Thai) from the computer, asked the lawyer to read it to me and explain anything I didn't understand, and then we both had to sign it. The document was a long series of statements such as, "I explained to the applicant that after receiving notice of a successful application, he must come to the Immigration office within 30 days. The applicant said he understood." In fact, some of the statements hadn't been made in the interview.

After we'd signed, she asked the lawyer to leave. Then she gave me a sheet of 10 multiple answer questions written in Thai. Since I don't read Thai very well at all, she read the questions and the answers, pointing at the ABCD answers as she read them. Some of the answers had little pictures which made them easier. With some of them, you could tell just from the answers which was the odd one out, even if you didn't understand the question.

Some of the questions were pretty easy, some required a basic knowledge of Thailand (How many provinces there are, etc), and one was about the PR process (i.e. the stuff I had signed in the statement). The only problem I had was that the questions were phrased in formal written Thai style rather than the spoken Thai I'm used to. If I didn't understand the question, it was pretty easy to figure out the question from the answers.

The test doesn't take long. After that, you go into a partitioned area and introduce yourself in Thai while they record it on camera. It looked like an ordinary Sony still camera to me, so the video mode would probably not be more than a couple of minutes. I kept my intro short, but I was asked a couple of questions after I finished.

Approval letter

I received my approval letter 16 months after making the application. The letter is in Thai but there are separate instructions in English on what documents you need to get the Certificate of Residence (you must do this within 30 days):
1. Original and copy of passport (certified true copy by you)
2. Original and copy of the House Registration book of your residence (certified true copy by the owner) and details of the local police station whose jurisdiction it is in. You will be put on this House Registration later.
3. 12 4x6cm photos not more than 3 months old.
4. Fee of 191,400 baht (if single) or 95,700 baht if the spouse of Thai national or PR holder paid in cash or by cashier's cheque (in Bangkok only). A copy of any cashier's cheque.

Picking up the Certificate of Residence

When you go to Immigration they give you a sheet "Procedures in obtaining the Certificate of Residence (TM.16)" that describes most of the following procedures. In Bangkok they will take you to Room 202 and you'll never deal with Room 301 again.

You pay the fee, give them 4 photos, have your thumbprint taken and give some information that will be forwarded to your local police and end up in your Alien Registration book. They will take the embarkation form out of your passport and write the details (i.e. flight number) of your last entry into Thailand on it. Then they'll stamp your passport with details of the Certificate of Residence. At some point in this process they will decide how to spell your name in Thai and may not ask you about it. If you want it spelt correctly, find some diplomatic way of giving it to them early on. You pick up your Certificate of Residence (actually a book) the next day and take it plus the letter they give you to your local police station. You must do this within 7 days of submitting your documents, not 7 days from receiving the Residence Certificate.

Obtaining the Alien Registration Book

You take the Residence Book and the letter they give you to the police, along with 4 photos, tabien baan (House Registration book), and copies of your passport, Residence Book and tabien baan. Plus the police will need the names of your mother and father in Thai script. Pay 400 baht for the current year and 800 baht for the next 5 years. Pick up the Alien Registration book a couple of weeks later. Then start the process to get put on the tabien baan.

Being put on a House Registration book

You apply at your district office to be put on a tabien baan. You'll probably deal with someone senior and have to provide copies of passport, tabien baan, Residence Book and Alien Book. There is no charge at all. After submitting the documents, they give you a letter which you take back to Immigration and make an appointment to go back to the district office. Immigration then gives you another letter which you take back to the district office.

For the second interview at the district office you need two Thais to act as witnesses. One will normally be the owner of your residence. The officer will ask you all a lot of detailed questions (how you know the witnesses, what's your blood group, etc) and write out an interview form for each of you, to which he'll add your photo and thumbprint and send them to the Interior Ministry "as evidence." Then you are put on the tabien baan and have reached the end of the process.

Traveling outside Thailand

Before taking a trip outside Thailand you must apply for a 1-year endorsement of your Residence Book (1,900 baht) and a re-entry ("non-quota Immigrant") visa in your passport (1,900 baht single, 3,800 baht multiple) valid for one year.

What you get

Certificate of Residence and Alien Registration Book

Both are tedious and long winded, some go the route of residency before trying for Nationality. with both only so many are issued per year, the rules are flexible and in the end count for nothing as it will be up to the top man.

Appealing to the royal household prior to application or during can and will be seen as attempting to circumnavigate the due process, remember there are more apply than receive, give no reason to them to turn you down as they will. Also remember that everybody that wants to go this route thinks of the same things as you so what ever you come up with will not be original. Stick to their guide lines and cross every T and dot every I.

[JonBon]

Your last post is confusing the issue a little. Thread is about becoming a Thai National but the whole of the last section is about permanent residence which is a different matter entirely.

[triptrip]

Sorry to be an arsehole but we just got back from a trip to Europe, my Thai wife is fuming over the immigration in Europe especially France. She was asked a whole hosts of questions relating to our trip to Paris, duration of stay, purposes of visit, monetary sponsorship, all the while having a Schengen Visa in her passport which she applied well beforehand our proposed trip.

Me, on the other hand, just breeze through immigration in Europe with no question asked.

Once we got to the hotel, she asked me when is she eligible to apply for a passport of my country of origin as she felt really bad about the whole ordeal and thought about future traveling plans as well. By the way, it costs her thousands of bahts to get a swiss and schengen visa for this trip which luckily was sponsored by her company (she had a seminar in Switzerland and hence the trip).

So the lesson here is, why in the world anyone wants to carry a Thai passport or become a Thai citizen is beyond me?

Notwithstanding the above and sharing my experience, although this may not be applicable to many here in the forum but it's worth to explore such options. One of my neighbor told me stories of people (especially Asian looking foreigners) going to far flung remote villages and look for people who passed on. They will then purchase the deceased ID Card and register it with local amphur (with a few bribes here and there), change into a Thai name and voila. Save a few years of your life, inconsistent bureaucracy and lots of money as well.





T

[naiharn]

Documents applicants must supply are;
• Five copies of passport
• Five copies of documents verifiying address in Thailand
• Five copies of work permit
• Five copies of house registration
• Five copies of marriage registration (translated into Thai)
• Two copies each of ID cards and house registrations of two people who guarantee the applicant’s behavior and assets.
• Copy of birth certification, ID card or passport of a wife or husband and children, if any. If the applicant has changed names or surnames, documents relating to these must also be provided.

and much much more.

My god, look at all the red tape! Why so much documentation? Oh, I forgot, we're talking about Thailand, land of flashy uniforms, 2-faced smiles, and sad people desperate to prove how great their country is by making simple procedures for foreigners a nightmare of difficulty. It reminds me of applying for a work permit there 20 years ago, and supplying 126 pages of documents, including complete education records of my siblings!

Seems, the country has not changed.

It's is such a contrast with Australia. My Thai wife gained citizenship in Australia - so how did she do it? Five copies of every document imaginable? Huge list of things to do? NO! Just live in Australia for 3 years as a permanent resident, fill out some basic forms, and bingo you are a citizen.

Anyway, here is my piece advice, your long list of steps is one way to get Thai citizenship - then there is the other way: become quite rich, splash money about to Thai politicians and businessmen, bribe the right people and you'll be a full-fledged Thai in no time!

You might also consider becoming very good at golf.

Cheers
N