Santika: 60 ppl killed, 200 injured raise a question (again)

[oliversmith]

My thoughts goes directly to the ones who lost a friend or family in this tragic event yesterday: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/135674/dozens-die-in-night-club-fire

Being a security expert with more than 15 years experience, not including serving my country in SF, the tragic accident yesterday at Zantika raise another question I tried to point for the past 3 years to my customers: fire and safety.

Thailand is a great country growing too fast trying to copy western life style, and ignoring safety measures in many domains causing death of 1000 of people every years: cars with their 10th hand spare parts, motorcycle with almost no regulation of the quality of helmets, building construction with no evacuation plan or exercises, airport is also a good example.

I hear people saying that cost of life is cheap, well it's not true it's just lower quality. And there are many examples around. Zantika is unfortunately another example of large scale fast money making machine focus on entertainment and not safety of their customers. What happen here will happen again tomorrow in RCA or any big Tower in Bangkok hosting condos or offices.

My experience show that after 3 years pointing at major security problems for big customers (brand that you see or use everyday) really don't see the interest of spending a dime in Evacuation plan. Don't get me wrong I don't point at commercial service offer, but total irresponsibility of major Thai business owners. Most of them will reply that the cost of life isn't very high in Thailand, I usually reply them what about if it was your and the one of kids?

I feel sad for the ones who lost a friend, and upset at the people responsible for this tragedy.

Just another day in Thailand...

[stilljustbrowsing]

Reports say the place was scheduled to close after this "party".
I would be looking at who is the land-owner and what the proposals where after closure.
I would also recommend looking at insurrance policies.
As you say "life is cheap".
I have reported elsewhere, look for the emergency exit signs and proceedures on the BTS and MRT systems, or the busses!

[pachangamac042]

same topic, different category, a bit confusing…

[stilljustbrowsing]

Well, it would appear to be a general issue of a political nature. No, I am not being funny, it is far too serious in issue to involve humour. More to do with who pays what to whom, and who gets the "hand backs"

[LEADSINGER]

Our international panel’s summary recommendations for investigations in connection with the New Years Eve disaster in the Ekamai/Thong Lo District of Bangkok:

1. Mayor of Bangkok – potential gross inconsistency of administration and dereliction of responsibility wherein on the one hand investing hundreds of millions of taxpayers’ Baht in firefighting equipment and on the other hand failing to set and/or enforce fire-life safety codes, standards and regulations for public places such as restaurants, bars and nightclubs including setting inspections for safe ingress/egress, hazardous materials such as flammable insulation, maximum occupancy standards, etc. The civil and criminal investigations must focus on the degree to which Mayoral failures of setting and enforcing various codes, standards, regulations and ensuring regular inspection lead to or contributed to loss of life and injury. Thai law provides for significant prison sentences and fines and confiscation of property of public officials convicted of dereliction of responsibility.

2. Police Precinct Captain - dereliction of responsibility in failing to enforce fire-life safety codes, standards and regulations for public places such as restaurants, bars and nightclubs including maximum occupancy standards, etc. The civil and criminal investigations must focus on the degree to which the Police Precinct Captain’s failure to enforce regulations lead to or contributed to loss of life and injury. Thai law provides for significant prison sentences and fines and confiscation of property of public officials convicted of dereliction of responsibility.

3. Fire Battalion Commander - dereliction of responsibility in failing to enforce fire-life safety codes, standards and regulations for public places such as restaurants, bars and nightclubs including maximum occupancy standards, regular inspections for hazards and flammable materials, safety and adequacy of emergency exits, etc. The civil and criminal investigations must focus on the degree to which the Fire Battalion Commander’s failure to enforce regulations lead to or contributed to loss of life and injury. Thai law provides for significant prison sentences and fines and confiscation of property of public officials convicted of dereliction of responsibility.

4. Building Owner – building owners in Bangkok who lease their facilities for public use such as restaurants, nightclubs and other retail operations are required by law to ensure that their tenant (s) operate in the best interests of public safely. Building owners who ignore unsafe practices including presence of flammable materials, operations that exceed safe occupancy and lack of emergency equipment and emergency exits are liable for civil and criminal prosecution and risk significant prison sentences, fines and confiscation of property including forfeiting their title to land and buildings on which such improper activities take place. Building owners are also liable for personal injury and death settlements to individuals and families who sustain injury and loss of life. Further, such building owners are precluded from engaging in the lease of any other properties they may own for public uses for up to 100 years.

5. Business Owners/Operators - business owners/operators including silent partners and investors in Bangkok whose business(es) operate facilities for public use such as restaurants, nightclubs and other retail are required by law to ensure that they operate in the best interests of customers and public safely. Business owners/operators who ignore unsafe practices including presence of flammable materials, operations that exceed safe occupancy and lack of emergency equipment and emergency exits are liable for civil and criminal prosecution and risk significant prison sentences, fines and confiscation of property including forfeiting their business assets. Business owners/operators are also liable for personal injury and death settlements to individuals and families who sustain injury and loss of life whether caused by their actions or lack of action including overall responsibility for all acts or lack of action of employees and contracted service providers such as performers. Further, such business owners/operators are precluded from engaging in the lease of any other properties they may own for public uses for up to 100 years.

End.

[stilljustbrowsing]

Key words "Thai law provides for". END OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????

[Wisguy01]

The Santika fire is a tragic event but I have to say the January 7th "Setting the record straight" was, to me, pure BS. While I have no doubt that the "owner" (that is operating partner) is feeling terrible it does not excuse what happened:
1. People panicked and stampeded: excuse me – of course this is what people do when suddenly confronted with smoke and flame and especially when they are teens and 20-something who have not the experience or training NOT to panic. This is what FIRE EXITS, SPRINKLER SYSTEMS and OCCUPANCY LIMITS are all about. The owners certainly should have been aware of the importance of these features and to have their farang friend hold the victims of the fire responsible is just insulting.
2. Combustible Contents: Who else to hold to blame but the owners and operators of a nightclub who packed FLAMABLE decorations inside a building without functional sprinklers or effective fire suppression measures. And NO bottles of alcohol are NOT Molotov cocktails; those are filled with gasoline and even the most obtuse should understand the difference between the explosive flammability of the two. Go take a bottle of brandy – pour it on a piece of cloth (do this OUTSIDE, in metal bucket of sand away from anything else) and try to ignite it. Now, repeat the above with gasoline. If the pub manager was going to use/allow fireworks then he had a responsibility to insure that no danger could occur … here is a quick test: What would be needed if I wanted to use these items in my apartment/home filled with guests?

3. Disorganization of rescue: This is again attempting to blame others for criminal negligence (it this had occurred in LA you can imagine where the manager would be sitting right now). Holding that services should be better is probably correct, would better organization saved lives? Mr. Bulman admits in his own writing that most victims were gone before the rescue units had a chance to save them; the whole point of mandated fire safety measures is to give the fire-rescue units time to arrive and save people's lives.

Thailand is NOT some god-forsaken patch of central Africa ripped by massive and continuing tribal warfare, it is a western technology savvy country whose upper educated classes are as well educated as anywhere in the world (and many are educated in multiple countries). This was not some bamboo hut in the Northeast (but doubtful a fire in such would have been as bad) but a NEW building in Bangkok that catered to the young and educated and they should have been able to expect more from the owner, regardless of the feeling of that person's friends.

[pachangamac042]

Dear Wisguy01, what a pity that you did not post your lines under the other topic, category; Thai politics, topic; dozens die in night club fire, with same subject. I could have needed your support. Good lines, similar to what I wrote. Maybe you should check out the other topic.

Anyways, welcome to this forum.

[Victor]

Hope we do not forget this tragedy as yet....

Does anyone know that it took the Thong Lor police nearly half an hour to report a fire to the near by fire station?
And there was apparently no one to control the traffic in front of the club at all, making access by the fire engines virtually impossible?

[Victor]

In today's PostBag writer Fred Sibbert questioned the Post for its inefficiency and/or the lack of professionalism concerning its report (or the lack thereoff) on this particular case. Frankly, I am willing to go one step further.....I think someone higher up in the Post must have had some kind of interest in this pub and therefore wanted to put the lid on it.