Thai Marriage Laws

Thai Marriage Laws

Postby Aussie John on Fri May 18, 2007 6:33 am

I am trying to understand why Westerners living and married to Thai nationals are denied permanent residency status once they are legally married in the kingdom.
In the west a Thai national receives residency once they are officially married to a western citizen. Procedures are followed and intensive checks are made to the validity of the marriage. Once these are followed and accepted the Thai national has more or less equal rights to his or her partner.
I would really like an intelligent Thai to explain this sensitive area of Thai immigration law to me.
On all the research I have done on it , I have failed to come up with any true rational or might I say fair information as to why Thailand restricts Westerners from obtaining residency upon marriage.
Western countries have rules and regulations concerning marriage to foreigners and yes it's difficult to move through the procedure but once accepted the Thai national is free to work, set up a business of their choice and of course buy land, house or unit unretricted.
Why does Thailand have such xenophobic restrictions, when from what I see, a small elite group of might say non-ethnic Thai at ancestral origin own and control 90% of Thailands GDP. They also own vast tracks of land throughout the kingdom.
This group was once denied the right to own land in the kingdom, but on been granted citizenship many years ago have come to control almost all spheres of influence within the kingdom. This is a bizzarre reality and presently widly accepted.
I put it to you, that it is this very elite group that has enforced controls over Westerners becoming residents in the kingdom, not because they fear that westerners would buy up all the land, but because they fear a westerners liberal views would actually encourage change over the majority of the population that presently have been manipulated into thinking that a westerners' form of democracy and that of it's immigration laws are actually dangerous for Thailand.
How wrong this small group are. They know by keeping their monopolies on land and business ownership exclusively to themselves that their future ill gotten wealth is guaranteed.
This is clearly seen in the gross disparity of wealth within the kingdom which is a very factor in why Thailand cannot move towards a fair, just democracy, as this small group continues to dupe the vast majority of subserviant Thai into believing that many facets of western democratic laws cannot work in the kingdom, although their technology and unprotected investments are more than welcome .
Continual xenophophic propaganda through media and government bodies continually enforces the latent idea that the westerner can never trully be a Thai citizen.
Why is it then a Thai national can become a true Western citizen.
Can someone please explain the differences and why?
Western nations are bulit on diversity, that's why we are successfull. It seems Thailand is a closed shop only for the benefit of the controlling few who seem to assume to know what it means to be a true Thai resident/citizen.
Why is this so?
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Aussie John
 

RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby colin howard on Fri May 18, 2007 10:50 am

hi john ,an excellent posting ,i know personaly 3 farangs who are married here in thailand to nationals and supporting 5 thai children between them from there wives previous marraiges ,all have had houses built but are unable to get a marraige visa even though they are ok for finance,s ,the whole situation is at best sheer lunacy ,if you are over 50 its a piece of cake to get a retirement visa even though you maybe only supporting yourself ,i find this odd to the extreme ,regards ,colin .
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colin howard
 

RE: RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby Ian on Fri May 18, 2007 6:49 pm

Actually both of you are wrong on a technical point. If you include Australia
as a "Western" country, there is no automatic right of residence via marriage in Oz. This was revoked very soon after
current PM Howard's conservative government came to power in 1996. He's won landslides ever since - partly on tightening Oz's border security, bringing it much more into line with countries like Thailand. Not for the first time, with it's anit-farang policies, Thailand shot itself in the foot, as far easy entry into Oz.
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Ian
 

RE: RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby harry on Sun May 20, 2007 12:58 pm

Hi Collin,
I married 33 years with a Thai lady, I have a Thai marriage license also already 33 years.
But when I like to retire in Thailand I have to put a guarantee of 800 000 bath or a monthly income of 65 000 bath. This income must come from abroad. Every year the immigration will review my case. Only after 5 years I get a permanent resident
visa.

And their is paragraph that is dubious

"A one-year extension or stay shall be granted
at the discretion of the immigration officer........ "

http://www.thaivisa.com/
http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

When we own a house in Thailand and I have bad luck to have greedy in laws they even can sell my house, and trow me on the street, after my wife deceased. Even my children can not inheritance my house and land. Even worse when I had the kindness to adopt my wife's children from a previous marriage they can't inheritance my real estate.

So saying that a retirement visa is a piece of cake is a little bit over the top.
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harry
 

RE: RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby colin howard on Mon May 21, 2007 9:29 am

hi harry ,everything you say is quite correct and i see eye to eye with your post ,but in my case its a bit different than yours ,for a start my wife is 25 years younger than myself and i paid a very modest sum for our ,or should i say her house which i bought for a pittance as a bit of security for her when i,m gone ,also i don,t find the sum of 800,000 baht excessive in the least cos after all its still your money and do,s not have to placed liked a bond with the thai government ,and to be quite candid i think that you are just a bit paranoid on the wording from immigration ,haveing said all that i,m sure you are more better informed than myself but personaly speaking i still think its a piece of cake for a retirment visa ,regards ,colin
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colin howard
 

RE: RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby colin howard on Mon May 21, 2007 9:37 am

hi ian ,methinks that you,ve got your wires crossed on this one ,not sure about john but i meant about a farang getting a marriage visa for the farang to live in thailand ,because theres is a boulder strewn path believe me ,ive always agreed in your postings about the complete lack of a level playing field as far as thailand is concerned ,and i for one think this should be drawn to the respective governments attention most urgently ,regards ,colin .
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colin howard
 

RE: RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby Aussie John on Mon May 21, 2007 10:40 am

Hi Ian.
I understand there is'nt an automatic right to PR for a Thai marrying an Aussie.
They now must follow a stringent process of checks, but once granted the residency status and this includes the many Thai students who apply each year and are also granted residency, they are free to work, run a business and yes buy a house and land.
Residency in Thailand does not give you the same rights, this is what I was trying to compare and understand.
You can only buy land once you are a citizen of Thailand and on research into attainting citizenship this is a lengthy, long drawn out process.
I'm still wondering why Thailand offers residency to foreigners, but still denies them the rights western nations give to their new residents. There seems to be very few benefits from where I view Thai immigration laws. I'm trying to understand the purpose of what seems to be discrimination based on baseless xenonophobia.
Maybe you can enlighten me.
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Aussie John
 

RE: RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby harry on Tue May 22, 2007 4:20 pm

hi Collin,
yesterday I went to the Thai consulate in Antwerp to get a visa. I apply for a Multiple entry visa for 1 year. I only have to show my Thai marriage certificate and payed 120 Euro. I may it pick it up on Friday. No hassles. I have the right for multiple entry's, If I don't leave the country I must go every 3 months to the foreign police in Bangkok to renew the visa. If I leave the country they will prolonged it with 89 day's at the boarder.

But my main objections against the requirements for a retirement visa, is that in my humble opinion its a violation of Human rights. Their should not be any limitations for a foreigner who is lawfully married whit a Thai national for more than 30 years. In not any EU country their are such limitations. Its a question of principles. But maybe I'm too narrow minded to think like that.

Collin, please don't get the wrong idea, I'm convinced that you have a trustworthy wife who have a genuine love for you. But you never knows what the future can brings to you. Both of us have enough sense of reality to know this.

My wife is 12 years older than me(yeah men like that exist also, LOL), so I'm more concerned about this issue. I really have a wonderful middle class Chino-Thai family who never asked something, its even the contrary. But I'm a person who learn in the hard way not to put too much trust in people, and lay my life in their hands.
I hope you understand my feeling.
kind regards
harry
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harry
 

RE: RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby Geoff on Wed May 23, 2007 9:47 am

Colin,
They must think retirees spend more money as they get older. I get a thai wife visa and i only need 400000THB per year. Still doesn't enable me to work. Why do retirees need to show more annual income?
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Geoff
 

RE: RE: Thai Marriage Laws

Postby colin howard on Wed May 23, 2007 12:29 pm

hi harry ,i can well understand your feelings ,30 years in a long long time , i was married for 42 before my dear wife passed away in 03 ,it would seem that the thai government can,t sort the wheat out from the chaff if you get my meaning and many genuine cases have to suffer the same fate as the many wrongdo,ers by being discriminated against and i realy think this is the root cause of the problem ,thankyou for your concerns but believe me my head is well and truly screwed on the right way ,regards ,colin .
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colin howard
 

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