Bangkok Post : Iranian insider predicts regime change

Despite working for many years in the secrecy-shrouded intelligence section of the Iranian government, Mohammad Reza Madhi, 46, a former high-ranking officer in Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards' intelligence service and once the right-hand man of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has decided it is time to go public.

His exclusive interview with Spectrum was conducted as Iran's opposition leaders faced new threats with the state prosecutor warning they could be put on trial if they do not denounce last week's anti-government protests - the worst unrest since the immediate aftermath of the disputed June election.

The confrontation between Iran's clerical rulers and their opponents has returned to the streets in recent weeks, after a harsh crackdown immediately following the election had all but put an end to demonstrations. Despite a continuing tough response from security forces, the opposition movement has regained some momentum.

The son of the deposed Shah last week urged nations worldwide to withdraw their ambassadors from Teheran to protest against the relentless government crackdown on opposition demonstrators.

Reza Pahlavi, who has lived in exile since his father was toppled in the 1979 Islamic revolution, also appealed in a letter to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon for a UN investigation into human rights violations during the unrest.

Mr Pahlavi equated the climate of the unrest with the "revolutionary atmosphere" that preceded the fall of his father from the Peacock Throne 30 years ago, when the monarchy was replaced by an Islamic republic. The difference, he said, is that this time the people know what they want - a secular democracy.

Former intelligence chief Mr Madhi, who first worked for the Iranian government in 1981 in the army and the Revolutionary Guards' intelligence services, spoke out against the present government during a stopover in Bangkok last week.

In recent years he secretly passed information to Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, one of the most respected clerics in Iran, who passed away on Dec 19, 2009.

Mr Madhi escaped from Iran in February 2008 after being sentenced to 73 years in jail for what he described as a trivial charge. Since then he has been working from abroad to organise opposition against the Iranian government.

He has been in regular contact with the Green Path of Hope group, an Iranian association established in August 2009 by the opposition leader, Mir-Hossein Mousavi, and also with other groups and individuals.

Q: How would you describe the current political and economic situation in Iran?

A: The way the Iranian government has chosen to go is the wrong one. They forget the promises they have made to the people. They took all the power in the country into their hands and have tried to run the country like it is their kingdom, similar to that of the Shah, who was overthrown in February 1979. The Shah wore the crown, but now the Ayatollahs wear turbans. It is the same thing. They run the country like a kingdom.

The government has destroyed Iran's international relations with many strong and powerful countries like the United States, European nations and others.

The economic situation is also very bad at this moment. It is zero. Instead of looking after its own people, the government supports those living in African countries, Palestine and in Venezuela.

Q: How many opposition groups are there in Iran, and are they united?

A: There are four major opposition groups and about 20 small ones. The big groups are united and are working with each other, but the small ones are not. However, they are all working for the same goal, which is to oust the government. I believe that the majority of people in Iran are against the government.

Q: What is the opposition's view of the United States and policy towards Israel? Do you recognise Israel's right to exist?

A: We need to have good relationships with every country around the world, including the United States and the Europeans. We do not have a problem with Israel. The problem of Israel could be solved by Palestinians and Israel in cooperation and with help from states in the region and the world community. We live in the 21st century and nowadays the world is connected and globalised. We should be a part of the world. We cannot close our eyes to the United States and Europe. They are strong political and economic powerhouses. If Iran is to prosper, we need to have good relationships - both political and economical - with everyone, including Russia.

As for Israel, it is the Iranian government which doesn't recognise its right to exist, but the Iranian people might think differently. Israel's internal problems are its own affairs, not ours. We shouldn't get involved. It shouldn't concern us. My view is that Israel has the right to exist. We should recognise it.

Q: Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that Israel should be wiped out. What is your opinion?

A: When the president of a country like Ahmadinejad says that he wants to kill all the people in Israel, this is very bad. Israel is not a person - it is a country with many people living there. Ahmadinejad is crazy. He is not talking and behaving like the president of a country. He has already destroyed international relationships with many countries and made them enemies of Iran. This has cost the Iranian people so much. His ideas are dangerous. That's why we have so many problems. We want to be friendly with every country.

Q: Do you expect a collapse of the government any time soon?

A: The government has already collapsed. There's going to be big changes very soon. Believe me, it will happen soon. I can promise you that I will meet you for the next interview in Teheran very soon. However, I am afraid that the transition won't be peaceful. You see what has happened during the religious ceremony called Ashura a few days ago. They killed so many people, 11 to be exact, not eight as was reported by the western media.

We want to keep our country as the Islamic Republic of Iran, but religion and politics must be separated. We want to change the structure of the government. The good clerics should help the people and the government, while the bad ones should be ousted from government. If you look back at history, several hundreds years ago, the church controlled everything in Europe. We are experiencing the same situation. Some of the top Ayatollahs have a lot of power.

Q: What will it take to remove the people in power?

A: We are working on it. The western media could help us if they could talk directly to the Iranian people, to tell them the truth. This would help. The Iranian media don't belong to the people. They are controlled by the government which is using them to spread lies.

Q: You said you worked closely with the current supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Could you be more specific?

A: I have been working with him for almost 19 years. I saw him frequently, sometimes 10 times or more in one day. We were very close. I was a protector of the leadership apparatus. I was head of a committee for strengthening the Islamic State and preventing anything from weakening it. I helped him too much. He used to be a good, open-minded man until he started a close relationship with Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi, a spiritual adviser to a group of hard-line fundamentalists. He is a very crazy man who hates Israel and the United States especially. Unfortunately, President Ahmadinejad is one of his big fans as well.

Q: Tell us about the clergy. Are they divided?

A: The Ayatollahs are very much divided. They have so many problems between each other. There are many Ayatollahs who have different views. However, the ones in the government have the power, not the others.

It is impossible to change Iran in a religious way. Iranian people are, have been and always will be religious people. However, I believe that politics and the religion might be divided soon.

Q: What is the feeling within the military? Can the government rely on them? Are they loyal?

A: At this moment, the government cannot rely 100% on the Iranian Army and even on the Revolutionary Guards, who are more powerful. There are now only a few hard-line religious people inside the Revolutionary Guards who are against the people.

There are some people inside the Revolutionary Guards who are against the government and side with the people. The government is aware of that. And the same applies to the Iranian Army. Many of them are now on the people's side. Many of them are now against the government, but they are afraid to say it openly because they might have problems.

As for the relationship between the Army and the Revolutionary Guards, theoretically they are united, but in a reality, they are not. They don't like or trust each other. The government trusts and gives more support and benefits to the Revolutionary Guards than to the Army. Some agents of the Revolutionary Guards are placed inside the Army to watch them both officially and secretly.

Q: Is your country developing nuclear weapons?

A: My personal view is that if Iran comes under more pressure from other countries they might think of that, but right now, I don't think so. I don't have any proof. Maybe they have already started. If so, I would like to stop it. Iran doesn't need nuclear weapons. We need nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, like, for example, to generate electricity.

Q: In your opinion, do sanctions imposed against Iran by western nations have any effect? Do you agree with sanctions?

A: I disagree with the sanctions because they put more pressure on the people than the government. I have a message to President Obama: Instead of imposing sanctions, you should give more support to the opposition groups. The sanctions don't work. The government uses sanctions as an excuse to put more pressure on the people.

The current Iranian government is not supported by the people and therefore, the western governments should not officially recognise them. They should stop economic cooperation with them as well. Germany, for example, has many business ventures with Iran, but they say they don't accept Ahmadinejad.

Q: You have worked in intelligence. How does the present government run these services?

A: The Iranian government is running a large intelligence network both inside and outside the country. Most of the intelligence work is now the responsibility of the Revolutionary Guards. Iran has a very large intelligence service.

Q: What are your personal plans?

A: I have many plans, for the Army, the Revolutionary Guards and the intelligence service, for university people and for all the people in Iran. I am looking forward to living with my family in Iran after the government changes. They are having a difficult time now.

Q: If the government changes, would you take a position with the new government?

A: Yes, 100%. I will go back to build my country. Every Iranian should work to reconstruct Iran.

Q: Are you in contact with your people in Iran?

A: Yes, for 10 hours or even more every day! Sometimes I don't sleep because it is time to talk with them. I use mobile phones, emails and other means to communicate with them. I know what is going on in Iran every day.

Q: Because of your former high position in Iranian intelligence and because you obviously know many secrets, has the Iranian government attempted to discredit or threaten you?

A: They attempted to kill me and also discredit me. About six months ago a person pretending to be a friend of some foreign powers and who was, in fact, an Iranian agent, wrote an article about me in one western magazine claiming that I was in Iran and killing people. At that time, I was in a hospital in Germany.

Q: To your knowledge, does the Iranian government support terrorists like al-Qaeda?

A: No, they don't support this particular group, but for other groups I don't want to get into this because it is too complicated.

Q: Do you have any final words of advice?

A: I would like to warn western countries that the Iranian government might do something, like assassinate exiles, something they have done before. The Iranian government has infiltrated some exile groups with their agents, and this applies to some western media. I am sure that very soon the Iranian people will take up arms and fight the government. The future for the Iranian people is bright.